American agriculture on precipice of collapse

[Oerdin]

My understanding is neonicotinoids are the cause of most bee colony collapses in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid

 

[Farm Boy]

Yes. But. But. Corn is wind pollinated. As the crop matures there's really no forage available to a bee in a stand of corn. They're really not going to be in the area in significant numbers, are they?

Still, that's not to say there's no effect, of course.

They aren't in the area very much, no. Not even if you rotate crops, as soybeans(the most common crop rotation with corn), are self pollinated so the bees aren't there from the year before. The inadvertent spread of that chemical from vacuum planters is very light, the majority of it is directly on the kernel placed directly in the ground. That particular type of chemical used in that particular way has mostly been a pretty decent success story of using small volumes of less toxic chemicals and only where they are absolutely needed to reduce broader impact.

My understanding is neonicotinoids are the cause of most bee colony collapses in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid

That's what needs to be studied. It is possible, possible that the situation I described with that particular chemical(which is in the pink coating on those seeds and spread in minute quantity accidentally with the vacuum planters I put up pictures of) are a contributing factor or cause of bee colony collapse. The USDA is studying that, they haven't been able to prove it and it's only possible that the theory is true. There are a lot of competing theories in study and from beekeepers as well.

I believe the EU is premature in banning those chemicals used in this fashion as I think they will be replaced by worse and more broadly toxic controls. They did only ban them for 2 years, which also leads me to believe they know that they're banning them "just to try it out" and see if it works to help bees. Which is also a silly way to do it, imo. But maybe they're right. Maybe people are just nostalgic about honey bees. Maybe a lot of things, but acting on good science isn't one of them.

 

[Silurian]

From Guardian

Is it a total ban?

No. Only three neonicotinoids will be suspended and only from flowering crops, on which bees feed. Neonicotinoids will still be used on winter crops, when bees are dormant, and in greenhouses.

What happens next?

The European commission will review new scientific evidence and data on the impact of the suspension within two years. The suspension will place further pressure on the use of neonicotinoids in other regions, such as in the US where a coalition of beekeepers, environmental groups and food campaigners is suing the federal Environmental Protection Agency for failing to protect pollinators.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/apr/29/bees-european-neonicotinoids-ban

 

[Farm Boy]

That...doesn't make any sense. Why would you use neonicotinoids on flowering crops? We know they're toxic to bees, that's settled science. What would make that chemical a good choice for a crop that's going to attract bees, bees that you need for the crop?

So you have either a) people who are intentionally killing insects they need which is possible but seems really dippy or b) a ban that isn't going to do much because it's only going to ban use of those three chemicals on crops that don't already attract bees anyhow or c) this is some sort of political stunt. I guess it could be d) home and hobby gardeners are inept and the damage is coming from them but it doesn't seem like that would be widespread enough to help a ton, unless most of Europe's beekeepers live right next to granny who coats her roses in whatever random crap she happens to select with no research. If that is plausible in truth rather than a joke perhaps we should require chemical applicator's licensing for residential use of lawncare and garden care products the same we do of farmers. That actually wouldn't be a terrible idea.

Edit: actually, this does have some weird impacts with say soybeans I guess. I still think this is either a political stunt to claim action or a try it and see approach. Guess we'll find out in a couple years.

 

[Borachio]

I don't know, because I haven't looked but I will, whether it's true but it seems to me the pesticides on sale to the average European gardener have become so tightly regulated over the last twenty years that only the most anodyne products are still on sale.

edit: apparently I'm wrong, (again ) they've only now been withdrawn from Garden Centres.
http://www.gardenersworld.com/forum/wildlife-gardening/national-diy-chains-remove-bug-killer-containing-neonicotinoids-from-sale/72602.html

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

My understanding is neonicotinoids are the cause of most bee colony collapses in the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neonicotinoid

What'd be important is to see how the statistcs come up in the EU after the ban (assuming strict adherence).

 

[Silurian]

From European Commission

Bees & Pesticides: Commission goes ahead with plan to better protect bees

The European Commission will in the coming weeks adopt a proposal to restrict the use of 3 pesticides belonging to the nenicotinoid family (clothianidin, imidacloprid and thiametoxam) for a period of 2 years. An Appeal Committee vote on 29 April 2013 returned an inconclusive opinion where: 15 Member States supported the proposal, 4 abstained and 8 voted against. Since no qualified majority was reached, procedurally, the responsibility on deciding whether to adopt the proposal now lies with the Commission.

The Commission's action is a response to the European Food Safety Authority's (EFSA) scientific report which identified "high acute risks" for bees as regards exposure to dust in several crops such as maize, cereals and sunflower, to residue in pollen and nectar in crops like oilseed rape and sunflower and to guttation in maize.

Previously the proposal failed to reach qualified majority at the expert's meeting of the Standing Committee on the Food Chain and Animal Health on 15 March.

In absence of an agreement between Member States, it is for the Commission to decide on the adoption of the proposed restriction.

Main elements of the Commission's proposal to Member States:

1-The proposal restricts the use of 3 neonicotinoids (clothianidin, imidacloprid and thiametoxam) for seed treatment, soil application (granules) and foliar treatment on bee attractive plants and cereals.
2-In addition, the remaining authorised uses are available only to professionals.
3-Exceptions will be limited to the possibility to treat bee-attractive crops in greenhouses, in open-air fields only after flowering.
4-The restrictions will apply from 1 December 2013.
5-As soon as new information is available, and at the latest within 2 years, the Commission will review the conditions of approval of the 3 neonicotinoids to take into account relevant scientific and technical developments

http://ec.europa.eu/food/animal/liveanimals/bees/neonicotinoids_en.print.htm

 

[Farm Boy]

I don't know, because I haven't looked but I will, whether it's true but it seems to me the pesticides on sale to the average European gardener have become so tightly regulated over the last twenty years that only the most anodyne products are still on sale.

edit: apparently I'm wrong, (again ) they've only now been withdrawn from Garden Centres.
http://www.gardenersworld.com/forum/wildlife-gardening/national-diy-chains-remove-bug-killer-containing-neonicotinoids-from-sale/72602.html

Well, I guess that is a compounding variable to control for. I'm not surprised they were available. They're less toxic than a lot of things we've used, not that they're perfect. I know that the coating on seed corn isn't something I want to eat or touch more than I have to, but it's still not particularly scary to handle. Which a lot of things in the 80s were and some stuff still now is. I'm often boggled by the massive dosage of chemicals that lawn and garden care applies in real usage. I mean, sure, farmers spread chemicals over a wide area - true, but they tend to try not to use more than is necessary to be effective. Darn stuff is expensive. Then you go to Farm & Fleet and there are concentrated spray bottles of herbicide for lawn care. Then you watch somebody go out and literally douse every dandelion in their lawn/garden with 4 spritzes from the bottle and I'm sitting there going "how much concentration of that stuff did you just hit your lawn with? Yeesh."

It appears my fears of adverse impact with soybeans were probably unfounded. I asked around and I don't think neonicitinoids are usually coated on those seeds. And soybeans aren't particularly great food for bees anyhow. Again, not that the impact is zero, but it's just a chemical that doesn't find it's way onto those plants to begin with and they're self-pollinating to boot.

What'd be important is to see how the statistcs come up in the EU after the ban (assuming strict adherence).

Maybe. Neonicitinoids are already under reassessment by the EPA. We'll see where that research goes too. Which I've always felt is a pretty reasonable approach even when I don't necessarily always agree.

 

[El_Machinae]

If Farm Boy is correct, a way of mitigating the injury might be to surround the fields with a small swath of non-flowering plants. Their leaves could help wick the toxins from the breeze before they settle on flowering plants.

I was listening to a Science Friday article on bees. Remember, there're a LOT of bees other than bumblebees. His biggest request for "what can I do?" was to allow a diversity of plants on your own property and avoid the use of pesticides. After that, all the efforts need to be at the grander policy level.