American Atheists Lose Fight to Keep 9/11 Cross from Museum

BvBPL

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So there was this cross found in the 9/11 wreckage, yeah? A lot of people placed a lot of meaning upon this object. In fact, priests and what not blessed the cross. It had been sitting on the grounds of a church near WTC for many years, but a while back the 9/11 Museum has moved it into their space. American Atheists opposed putting the cross into the Museum on the grounds that using government funds to display it somehow promotes Christianity.

They raised this case some time ago, July 2011, and it has finally come down from the courts that the purpose of the cross was “historic and secular” and that it should be displayed. American Atheists have promised to appeal.

What do you think?

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There’s a broader issue here as well. American Atheists wants the cross banned from the museum because they believe placing the cross in the museum would “promote” a certain religion system over others, something disallowed by the First Amendment.

What would happen, hypothetically, had they prevailed? Wouldn’t then make sense to say that museums could not spend funds from the government to sponsor or show religious pieces of all sorts? Wouldn’t that bar showing everything from Ganesh statutes, to The Last Supper, to The Thinker? What about using governmental funds to support religious pieces of architecture, such as giving St. Patrick’s Cathedral historic landmark status or permitting aid to the Egyptian government to restore and maintain the pyramids?

Of course American Atheists say they want to bar the promotion of religion so they might say their goals are more narrow than the issues outlined above. That may be the case, but a museum’s board may simply not want to take the chance that a retrospective of Hieronymus Bosch’s work may be viewed as a promotion of Christianity and would just take a pass on showing it.

Bonus bit: So American Atheists offered, as an alternative to not displaying the cross, the idea that equal representation should be allowed. When asked what sort of thing should the atheists would want represented, Silverman suggest that they use the atom because “we all came from atoms.”

Now regardless of where else you may fall on the issues brought up here, I think one might have to accept that a symbolic representation of the atom has jack all to do with 9/11. I mean, that’s just absurd idea.

What would you want to be the atheist symbol in the 9/11 museum if you had to pick?


Read all about it:
Atheists Sue to Block Display of Cross-Shaped Beam in 9/11 Museum
Judge Dismisses Suit Over Steel Cross at 9/11 Museum
 
Atheists are dicks. Need we say more?

Way to insult an entire group of people based on your judgment of the actions of a few. Gold star in prejudice!






In regards to the OP...people turning a cross beam into a religious icon is a reach, and the activists here are only exacerbating the problem by throwing more attention on it. For better or worse, the crossbeam became part of the 9/11 story, and no other religious icon included would have meant anything.
 
Way to insult an entire group of people based on your judgment of the actions of a few. Gold star in prejudice!






In regards to the OP...people turning a cross beam into a religious icon is a reach, and the activists here are only exacerbating the problem by throwing more attention on it. For better or worse, the crossbeam became part of the 9/11 story, and no other religious icon included would have meant anything.

Trollololololol

You are part of the problem clearly. The first step down the path to true atheist enlightenment is to realize we can be real pricks when it comes to this stuff. What happened here is kind of like if the NAACP were to sue the government for putting out an educational cartoon that featured a white president.

It would prove nothing and only breed animosity. Hell, even a victory would have done nothing meaningful to advance the cause.

We atheists have bigger fish to fry than this.
 
I, personally, am an atheist. And I have no problem with a cross being at the 9/11 museum. Of course, some people seem to want no religion displayed at all, but as long as your beliefs don't harm me, I could care less.
 
I think it's a bit daft. You mean a structure that used cross beams had a cross in the wreckage? Surely you jest. What are the odds of that? Like 1-in-2?

edit: of course, the silliness of that aside, it did become an icon of 9/11 and it should be there.
 
I think they will lose their appeal, but it certainly would be an interesting issue if it made it to a higher appellate court. That said, the whole case 'feels' stupid to begin with. Memoriam regardless of whatever shape, symbol, idea is manifested in has a right to be remembered in the minds of people who want to manifest their beliefs in whatever non-harmful memoriam they choose.

American Atheists are known for being pricks, this certainly didn't help their image nor relevancy.
 
I wonder if this will go 3,000+ posts like the threads about the Muslim community center in the general vicinity of the WTC property.
 
On another site, someone said that Christians found “implied” meaning in the cross. Below is my response, something I wanted to share w/ this community as well.
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I think it is worth noting that for many people who saw religious or faith-affirming meaning in this cross that the meaning wasn’t “implied” as much as it was ascribed. People went out of their way to make what was effectively a piece of trash into something that had meaning for them and others. By itself, the cross was an inert piece of building support; it is only because people invested their values and beliefs into it that it became something more.

Maybe that lends more credence to the idea that it promotes religion. Even if it does, I still think it should be displayed at the museum based on the fact that it is a historical artifact that demonstrates how people coped with the horrific events of that day.
 
I really thought this one was a bad idea. Looks like I was correct.

I can't stop these people any more than you guys can stop Fred Phelps. *shrug*

Wish they would've been talked out of going down this road.

EDIT: This is a great example of how I, without actually ceasing to be an atheist, have started to doubt the usefulness of organize atheism.

What would you want to be the atheist symbol in the 9/11 museum if you had to pick?

I'm not sure there really is a good one if we're limited to things that are 9/11 specific.

David Silverman is giving us all a bad name. He and the American Atheists should go away.

Exactly. I don't run around looking for Christian symbols to ban, I just want my freedom, really, and that's enough for me.
 
Wait wait wait.

So some random t beam of steel was taken out of the world trade center wreckage. And then people prescribed meaning to it. And it got displayed for at ground zero and moved sometime in 2004-2006? (wiki article unclear) then relocated to be in front of a church nearby in 2006? (The article in the OP says it has been in front of a church the past 5 years). AND THEN people "blessed" the cross?

AND THEN a special interest group bothered to sue about it being stuck in a museum of stuff that happens that day [Which is dumb to complain, but it does depend how it is presented. If it's presented as "here is a piece of steel from the wreckage" it's all fine in my book], but hilariously said an atom could be used? (Note that Silverman also said a picture of a firefighter carrying a victim, which is what should be used)

Man who needs comedy when the world is just insane.
 
If you watch Fox, you'd know that Hannity, O'Reilly, and the rest of the network, love having him on. They get to depict atheists as a-holes and Silverman just plays the role perfectly. Sometimes I think he might be a conservative plant.
 
I don't even get what's objectionable about this. If the cross was part of the wreckage, it's part of the events, so displaying it is perfectly in line with the museum's purpose of documenting the events. The fact that it's a cross and therefore a Christian symbol is purely incidental here.

Unless the museum attaches a plaque to it that says "here's irrefutable proof that God watches over us!!" or stuff like that these activists are idiots that only hurt the overall reputation of the people they're supposed to be representing.
 
If you watch Fox, you'd know that Hannity, O'Reilly, and the rest of the network, love having him on. They get to depict atheists as a-holes and Silverman just plays the role perfectly. Sometimes I think he might be a conservative plant.
I disagree. I think it just shows how deluded they and many of their viewers actually are.


Link to video.


Link to video.
 
Does Fox News make religious zealots and the authoritarian far-right look good? Did you even bother to watch the videos?
 
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