American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009: What Would You Do to the Bill?

[cubsfan6506]

You act as if 20% of damn near a trillion dollars is a drop in the bucket. Trim the fat off Obama's plan & it will pay for half.


Strawman. Nowhere did I support increasing welfare.


I do think we're wasting time in both nations, yes. Saddam is dead, the Taliban is overthrow. I just think at least we have some pretense (even if we're not very serious about it) in Afghanistan whereas Iraq was founded on a false premise (phony WMD's). My point is that Osama exists whereas the WMD's didn't. IMO, that doesn't justify our continued resource draining war there (Afghan) but at least it's something.

Neither of those wars are won and it is foolish to say so.

 

[Narz]

Neither of those wars are won and it is foolish to say so.

Ever heard the phrase "cutting your losses"?

 

[Archbob]

I'd spend this money to help generate another world war(preferably not in NA or Europe). That pulled us out of the last depression. It will work again.

 

[AngryZealot]

I suspect you are being sarcastic, but I'll bite. How would that work better than investing war-level resources on infrastructure? Same industrial push, without blowing stuff up.

 

[Archbob]

Well, obviously sarcastic.

I can't quite explain a reason why it would work better but The New Deal could never had done what WWII did. WWII generated real demand. The New Deal just opened up a lot of projects that really didn't need to be done.

Also when you have a war like WWII, employment has to go up because you need mass amounts of soldiers.

The demand for new bridges and other stuff like that is 'fluffy'.

The demand for tanks, guns, food, and ammunition is very real.

 

[AngryZealot]

In a way they're both artificial demand. When the war is over, however, the tanks and planes lose most of their value. Bridges and roads continue to serve the economy for decades to come. Employing the same number of people would boost the economy exactly the same (minus the deaths of thousands, if not millions of the most productive citizens), and provide long term benefits. Consider the interstate system, originally built for national defense and evacuation from nuclear attacks. That has easily paid back its cost many times over.

As part of a stimulus bill, I'd like to see a national high-speed electric rail network connecting the major population centers of the country. Electric rail is fully compatible with renewable generators, and wallops the efficiency of trucking for cargo transportation efficiency. Increase employment, increase environmental friendliness, increase future productivity. It seems like a no-brainer.

 

[Archbob]

Well, you need massive employment now. Any new spending plan can't compare to a World War. You can't immediately employ 10 million people unless they join the army or get drafted.

Personally, I think they should spend more of it on repairs to what we have than build new crap.

 

[yesboii]

Well, obviously sarcastic.

I can't quite explain a reason why it would work better but The New Deal could never had done what WWII did. WWII generated real demand. The New Deal just opened up a lot of projects that really didn't need to be done.

Also when you have a war like WWII, employment has to go up because you need mass amounts of soldiers.

The demand for new bridges and other stuff like that is 'fluffy'.

The demand for tanks, guns, food, and ammunition is very real.

Several Neo-Keynesian economists claim that the New Deal didn't work because Roosevelt didn't go far enough with his deficit spending programs.

Of course, this was easier to achieve then because we didn't have a humongous debt biting us in the butt.

 

[Archbob]

They can claim what they want. The New Deal did not 'work' as far as getting us out of the great depression. WWII ended the depression in a month or so.

However, WWIII is actually not a good idea(I was joking).

 

[mrt144]

Several Neo-Keynesian economists claim that the New Deal didn't work because Roosevelt didn't go far enough with his deficit spending programs.

Of course, this was easier to achieve then because we didn't have a humongous debt biting us in the butt.

Neo Keynesians are goddamn fools because they dont account for the latter part of your post. The marginal returns of GDP on debt are documented and should make one wary of the claims that the government could spend their way into private sector prosperity.

 

[AngryZealot]

The New Deal might not have magically erased the depression, but it certainly improved conditions by every objective measure of the economy.

If you need to hire 10 million people, what does it matter if it's to build tanks or to build Legos? If we're treating a world war as a means to an end, why not skip to the chase and save a few million lives in the process?

 

[Narz]

Well, obviously sarcastic.

I can't quite explain a reason why it would work better but The New Deal could never had done what WWII did. WWII generated real demand. The New Deal just opened up a lot of projects that really didn't need to be done.

Also when you have a war like WWII, employment has to go up because you need mass amounts of soldiers.

The demand for new bridges and other stuff like that is 'fluffy'.

The demand for tanks, guns, food, and ammunition is very real.

Except that you are assuming unlimited resources to waste.

Around WWII America wasn't trillions in debt, we supplied the bulk of our own oil, environmental concerns were not part of public consciousness (much).

 

[GenMarshall]

Vote yes on it and let the Republicans eat cake. If they are willing to stay on a sinking ship, let em. I'd rather see our nations economy fixed instead of dilly dallying around as more and more jobs are lost.

 

[Labtec600]

CNN) -- On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:


The Senate is currently the nearly $900 billion economic stimulus bill.

• $2 billion earmark to re-start FutureGen, a near-zero emissions coal power plant in Illinois that the Department of Energy defunded last year because it said the project was inefficient.

• A $246 million tax break for Hollywood movie producers to buy motion picture film.

• $650 million for the digital television converter box coupon program.

• $88 million for the Coast Guard to design a new polar icebreaker (arctic ship).

• $448 million for constructing the Department of Homeland Security headquarters.

• $248 million for furniture at the new Homeland Security headquarters.

• $600 million to buy hybrid vehicles for federal employees.

• $400 million for the Centers for Disease Control to screen and prevent STD's.

• $1.4 billion for rural waste disposal programs.

• $125 million for the Washington sewer system.

• $150 million for Smithsonian museum facilities.

• $1 billion for the 2010 Census, which has a projected cost overrun of $3 billion.

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

• $200 million for public computer centers at community colleges.

• $75 million for salaries of employees at the FBI.

• $25 million for tribal alcohol and substance abuse reduction.

• $500 million for flood reduction projects on the Mississippi River.

• $10 million to inspect canals in urban areas.

• $6 billion to turn federal buildings into "green" buildings.

• $500 million for state and local fire stations.

• $650 million for wildland fire management on forest service lands.

• $1.2 billion for "youth activities," including youth summer job programs.

• $88 million for renovating the headquarters of the Public Health Service.

• $412 million for CDC buildings and property.

• $500 million for building and repairing National Institutes of Health facilities in Bethesda, Maryland.

• $160 million for "paid volunteers" at the Corporation for National and Community Service.

• $5.5 million for "energy efficiency initiatives" at the Department of Veterans Affairs National Cemetery Administration.

• $850 million for Amtrak.

• $100 million for reducing the hazard of lead-based paint.

• $75 million to construct a "security training" facility for State Department Security officers when they can be trained at existing facilities of other agencies.

• $110 million to the Farm Service Agency to upgrade computer systems.

• $200 million in funding for the lease of alternative energy vehicles for use on military installations.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/02/gop.stimulus.worries/index.html

 

[Bigfoot3814]

Vote yes on it and let the Republicans eat cake. If they are willing to stay on a sinking ship, let em. I'd rather see our nations economy fixed instead of dilly dallying around as more and more jobs are lost.

So much for bi-partisanship then.

 

[bhsup]

• $75 million for "smoking cessation activities."

So in a bill whose intent is supposed to help create jobs and stimulate the economy, they take steps to get people laid off.

 

[Integral]

CNN) -- On Monday, House Republican leaders put out a list of what they call wasteful provisions in the Senate version of the nearly $900 billion stimulus bill that is being debated:

Wait, so out of a nearly $900bn stimulus package, House Republicans could only find $19 billion in "waste" that they had problems with? That's, what, 2% of the total?

 

[bhsup]

Here, let me just pull that $19 billion out of my butt. Since it is such a piddling amount and all.

 

[Mark1031]

Wait, so out of a nearly $900bn stimulus package, House Republicans could only find $19 billion in "waste" that they had problems with? That's, what, 2% of the total?

Yes. That would be a pretty clean bill (esp since some of the listed things are perfectly fine) to most reasonable people. Oh yeah I forgot we are talking about Republicans.

 

[bhsup]

That would have paid for 3 brand new aircraft carriers.