Americans suck

[Farm Boy]

You guys should chill out. These forums aren't the type where you get into bitter arguments every thread you post in (unless you're the ever tactful obsolete).

Sorry, I am just annoyed I have not found those lemur skivvies yet.

 

[pianoman1242]

They used to be one package. Not anymore.



By the Gods, you're right! Americans actually kick ass on Modern and Future starts.

Except that nobody plays those.

Not everyone plays unrestricted leaders, either. Most people still consider leader/civilization one package.

 

[DMOC]

Also, if you're not already #1 in score by the time Gunpowder is discovered, ur doin it rong.

I can't recall the last time that happened to me.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Not everyone plays unrestricted leaders, either. Most people still consider leader/civilization one package.

I played a Renaissance start game and it's not that bad (although I'd appreciate if turns are extended a bit to compensate for the settling phase). I think I'd also play a modern start game because I don't always get to enjoy the modern/future techs.

In fact, I should really try all these different modes before civ 5 comes out.

 

[Higher Game]

By that rationale, about 30 civilizations out of 34 are sucky. 4 remaining are Inca, Persia, Egypt and Rome, in no particular order. Aztecs, Mali and Babylon can be questionable.

Ottomans, English, Ethiopia, and Dutch might disagree.

 

[plasmacannon]

Ottomans, English, Ethiopia, and Dutch might disagree.

Sumeria, Mongolia and Zulu too.
Wow!
There are more, better Empires out there, than he thought!

And some like Greece and Byzantine Empires as well.
Alot depends on when you want to attack.

For multiplayer games, Maya is great to have when your opponent chooses Persia, Egypt or Mongolia.
More pop per city, FIN trait, builds granary+workers faster, their UU is immune to Mongolian 1st strikes and requires no resourse, so, they cannot be prevented from building it.

 

[revengeofmakno]

Sumeria, Mongolia and Zulu too.
Wow!
There are more, better Empires out there, than he thought!

And some like Greece and Byzantine Empires as well.
Alot depends on when you want to attack.

Have to agree, I've had consistently good results with Mongolia and Greece in the early going even if its a bit more difficult than Egypt or Persia.

 

[Ray Patterson]

Wow!
There are more, better Empires out there, than he thought!

There are 34 civilizations in Beyond the Sword. So if America is worse than 16 others, it's still above average. Now I'm not sure if that's the case. There may be 20 or so civs better. But there's at least 10 that are worse. Which the embarrassed Americans here conveniently ignore.

 

[bestrfcplayer]

It's "who", not "whom", and you can combine any leader with any civilization as long as you have Warlords or BtS.

Why did you have to go grammer-nazi on him

 

[plasmacannon]

I'm in the camp of the middle.
Sure, there alot of good early empires.
But, there are some where I would chose the Americans over.
Japan, Native American, Germany come to mind.
Others are close depending on ones strategy.
India, Korea, Russia, Celts, France, Byzantine.

Like I said earlier, the Americans have good starting techs, and good leaders.
Compare Roosevelt to HC (which many like), Lincoln to Alexander, Washington to Mao and you will see some close ones, and some where Ams are better.

 

[Ray Patterson]

you can combine any leader with any civilization as long as you have Warlords or BtS.

While it's true that you can, that doesn't mean that the game is intended that way. Playing Napoleon of the Holy Roman Empire is seriously overpowered I'd say.

 

[youknowwhatitis]

Americans really dont suck on earth maps. Great land, not crowded, and chicago.

 

[Abegweit]

Also, if you're not already #1 in score by the time Gunpowder is discovered, ur doin it rong.

LOL. What level do you play on?

 

[Farm Boy]

This is possibly the issue that has been driving this argument. Not all strategies are valid on all difficulty levels.

It goes both ways, strategies that rock the world on noble can be suicide on deity and strategies that are effective on deity can be useless on noble(aesthetics beelines for trade popping to mind).

I wouldn't razz on him too hard, if he is using high score as a measure for an accurate gauge of future victory, it can't be too much higher than monarch and is probably lower, but that is a play-style, not a sin!

 

[CornPlanter]

Ottomans, English, Ethiopia, and Dutch might disagree.

Dude, they suck. Ottomans UU is a sort of musketman, it comes way too late, considering that at this point you must lead in score already, unless you're doing it wrong like that noob DMOC who posted earlier. In any case Janissary won't help you to get an edge. English? LOL. If you're doing it right you get Riflemen way before AIs have any gunpoweder units. At least I can do that and I already play on Noble level (winning most of the time). Ethiopia see Ottomans. Dutch? Do they even have UU? But yes their overpowered UB somewhat makes up for the lack of UU.

But seriously, lets stop beating this dead horse

 

[Skwink]

Americans really dont suck on earth maps. Great land, not crowded, and chicago.

Until they meet an expanding Monty. Whenever I play, he expands out of Mexico and goes east.

 

[Higher Game]

Dude, they suck. Ottomans UU is a sort of musketman, it comes way too late, considering that at this point you must lead in score already, unless you're doing it wrong like that noob DMOC who posted earlier.

Try drafting a janissary army after liberalism --> steel. It's good.

English? LOL. If you're doing it right you get Riflemen way before AIs have any gunpoweder units.

The queens have very strong trait synergy. The English uniques are very good.

At least I can do that and I already play on Noble level (winning most of the time). Ethiopia see Ottomans.

This explains it. Play on higher levels and you'll get it. Ethiopia has a weaker UB than Ottomans but a better UU; upgrading oromos to riflemen is awesome.

Dutch? Do they even have UU? But yes their overpowered UB somewhat makes up for the lack of UU.

The Dutch UU is the best ship before frigates. The UB is not overpowered at all, but it's good.

 

[Abegweit]

He was being sarcastic about G-Max's claim that you had to be ahead in score by Gunpowder.

 

[Ray Patterson]

Sarcasm on the internet can only lead to pain (or, in rare cases, semi-celebrity).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPgkZfaA_K8

 

[Ryuujin]

Arguing that the American civ is bad because of Unrestricted Leaders is silly. Most people play with the standard combos and consider those the basis for what's "bad" or "good". Unrestricted Leaders is more for experimenting with overly synergistic leader/civ combos. Stuff like:

Churchill/Spain
Washington/Inca
Hammurabi/Sumeria
Tokugawa/Ottoman
Huayna Capac/Mali

Fun, but potentially even more unbalancing than some of the standard combos.