Henri Christophe
L'empereur
Make this threat to we speak about options to Americans civ we miss in this game.
Americas
- Thread starter Henri Christophe
- Start date
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Haiti - the only non-indigenous American civ I would consider at this point. I'd rather see one indigenous civ from both Americas more first, but a good candidate all the same.
Palmares - Haiti fills that niche better. An interesting city state candidate, but no more.
Seminole - In civilization terms, the native half of the Seminole are basically the Creek civilization (which is far more warranted). Very low priority.
Powhatan - Potential for an interesting pick, although the very direct overlap with America on a TSL map is a bit of a problem. My main worry, though, is that you just KNOW someone is going to try and sneak in Pocahontas as their leader, and as much as I support women leader, that's a no, just no. That risk put them a little down the Native American/First Nations priority list.
Choctaw - A good and worthy inclusion, whose main strike is that they share their area and niche with the Chickasaw and Cherokee, who both definitely come ahead of them in my opinion.
Chickasaw - Look, anyone who get compared to Spartans by the colonists get some pretty serious cred for inclusion. For me, it's them or the Cherokee in the South-East, and I would probably lean toward them since we already have one Iroquoian-speaking people who are a must have (Iroquois themselves).
Apache - Maybe, but I can't help but feel that the fact that we still don't know if they count as Plains Natives or Southwest Natives in terms of cultural sphere makes it hard to develop their niche. Using the Navajo (who were technically apache, but are more recognizably southwestern) may work better in that regard. Plus, for what the Apache are famous for (Plains horse people), the Comanche and Sioux are considerably stronger candidates.
Iroquois - I called them A-tier, and I stand by it. They should be inluded in the game more often than not.
Sioux - I'd love one of the Comanche or Sioux, if not both, to be in, as previously noted. Since the Comanche ar enot actually an option, I will cast my vote for these guys, though I would actually prefer the Comanche.
Navajo - Since the Pueblo are off-limit, they may be our main hope of a southwestern tribe. They get the nod.
Toltec: We've been over this. No.
Tarasco - Well, not under that name, but as the Purépecha, most certainly. Big yes from me. They're the Persians to the Aztec's Romans!
Zapotec/Mixtec - One of them would definitely be nice. I doubt we can have both due to close adjacency, and out of the two I would probably favor the Zapotec.
Tlaxcala - We don,t need another Nahuatl civilization. A city-state at most. Cortez completed their city state quest on the same turn he sent an envoy which allowed him to overtake the Aztec envoys count and take over as overlord, with all the results we know. (Or possible he was playing Hero mode and got Himiko, renamed her Malinche, and used her charges to flip Tlaxcala's loyalty).
Guarani - Hell yes. The only indigenous people who can legitimately claim that one of the colonial states is their successor states (Paraguay), where their language is spoken by an overwhelming majority of the population. A worthy inclusion in their own right. Big yes.
Yanomani - Not familiar with them, so cannot recomend.
Muisca - I mean, El Dorado is El Dorado. After the Guarani, probably the only South American civ I can still muster enthusiasm for.
Rio Grande do Sul, Quebec, Texas, Cuba, Jamaica, Uruguay - No. Go away, colonies. All of you already have one of the colonies of your motherland in the game (hell, Quebec-French Canada is pretty much already in the game since Canada has a strong French-Canadian side in game)
Tupinamba, Arawak, Taino - Not familiar enough with any of them to muster much enthusiasm for any of them.
Aymara - Bit too close to the Inca on TSL, no? They're certainly interesting, just not a very high priority for me.
Inuit - A snow civ sounds really hard to balance.
Missing on the list (besides Comanche) : The Haida. See what I said for the Chickasaw, except replace "Spartans" with "Vikings".
Palmares - Haiti fills that niche better. An interesting city state candidate, but no more.
Seminole - In civilization terms, the native half of the Seminole are basically the Creek civilization (which is far more warranted). Very low priority.
Powhatan - Potential for an interesting pick, although the very direct overlap with America on a TSL map is a bit of a problem. My main worry, though, is that you just KNOW someone is going to try and sneak in Pocahontas as their leader, and as much as I support women leader, that's a no, just no. That risk put them a little down the Native American/First Nations priority list.
Choctaw - A good and worthy inclusion, whose main strike is that they share their area and niche with the Chickasaw and Cherokee, who both definitely come ahead of them in my opinion.
Chickasaw - Look, anyone who get compared to Spartans by the colonists get some pretty serious cred for inclusion. For me, it's them or the Cherokee in the South-East, and I would probably lean toward them since we already have one Iroquoian-speaking people who are a must have (Iroquois themselves).
Apache - Maybe, but I can't help but feel that the fact that we still don't know if they count as Plains Natives or Southwest Natives in terms of cultural sphere makes it hard to develop their niche. Using the Navajo (who were technically apache, but are more recognizably southwestern) may work better in that regard. Plus, for what the Apache are famous for (Plains horse people), the Comanche and Sioux are considerably stronger candidates.
Iroquois - I called them A-tier, and I stand by it. They should be inluded in the game more often than not.
Sioux - I'd love one of the Comanche or Sioux, if not both, to be in, as previously noted. Since the Comanche ar enot actually an option, I will cast my vote for these guys, though I would actually prefer the Comanche.
Navajo - Since the Pueblo are off-limit, they may be our main hope of a southwestern tribe. They get the nod.
Toltec: We've been over this. No.
Tarasco - Well, not under that name, but as the Purépecha, most certainly. Big yes from me. They're the Persians to the Aztec's Romans!
Zapotec/Mixtec - One of them would definitely be nice. I doubt we can have both due to close adjacency, and out of the two I would probably favor the Zapotec.
Tlaxcala - We don,t need another Nahuatl civilization. A city-state at most. Cortez completed their city state quest on the same turn he sent an envoy which allowed him to overtake the Aztec envoys count and take over as overlord, with all the results we know. (Or possible he was playing Hero mode and got Himiko, renamed her Malinche, and used her charges to flip Tlaxcala's loyalty).
Guarani - Hell yes. The only indigenous people who can legitimately claim that one of the colonial states is their successor states (Paraguay), where their language is spoken by an overwhelming majority of the population. A worthy inclusion in their own right. Big yes.
Yanomani - Not familiar with them, so cannot recomend.
Muisca - I mean, El Dorado is El Dorado. After the Guarani, probably the only South American civ I can still muster enthusiasm for.
Rio Grande do Sul, Quebec, Texas, Cuba, Jamaica, Uruguay - No. Go away, colonies. All of you already have one of the colonies of your motherland in the game (hell, Quebec-French Canada is pretty much already in the game since Canada has a strong French-Canadian side in game)
Tupinamba, Arawak, Taino - Not familiar enough with any of them to muster much enthusiasm for any of them.
Aymara - Bit too close to the Inca on TSL, no? They're certainly interesting, just not a very high priority for me.
Inuit - A snow civ sounds really hard to balance.
Missing on the list (besides Comanche) : The Haida. See what I said for the Chickasaw, except replace "Spartans" with "Vikings".
I could see modders doing this, but not Firaxis. Powhatan himself is such a big draw he's hard to overlook. English settlers who had known their share of royalty described him as equal in dignity to any monarch in Europe, and reading between the lines just the effort of putting together a confederacy of nearly 40 tribes himself (partially through war but often through diplomacy) shows how magnetic his personality must have been.
What pushes the Choctaw ahead of the Chickasaw for me is one thing: Pushmataha. Neither the Chickasaw nor the Cherokee have half as compelling a leader.
If one substitutes the real trading Vikings for the pop culture raiding Vikings, I think the label fits. The Haida and Tlingit were more or less on par as the pinnacle of the PNW cultural area, and I think either would be fascinating as reversal of expectations: a Native American civ hyper-focused on Culture Victory (and big cities without farms).
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Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Pushmataha is a compelling selling point, I will say.
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
I chose every single bloody one. 
Don't judge me guys, please.
Don't judge me guys, please.You voted for splinter states like Québéc, Texas, Palmares, Rio Grande do Sul, and Tlaxcalla; for mesolithic tribes like the Inuit and Yanomami; and for an assortment of tiny postcolonial nation-states. I'm judging you.I chose every single bloody one.
Alexander's Hetaroi
Deity
I voted for:
Haiti- The last post-colonial civ I'd take for this game.
Iroquois- Should be a staple.
Navajo- My most wanted tribe.
Muisca- South America is fine for Civ 6 but I'd like to see them in Civ 7.
Texas- I mean I had to right? Don't take this vote too seriously.
Honorable mentions not on the list:
Argentina- As I said South America is fine for this game but if we need a different Latin American country in Civ 7 this would be a good replacement for Gran Colombia.
Tlingit/Haida- Sooner or later I'd like to see a PNW tribe.
Haiti- The last post-colonial civ I'd take for this game.
Iroquois- Should be a staple.
Navajo- My most wanted tribe.
Muisca- South America is fine for Civ 6 but I'd like to see them in Civ 7.
Texas- I mean I had to right? Don't take this vote too seriously.
Honorable mentions not on the list:
Argentina- As I said South America is fine for this game but if we need a different Latin American country in Civ 7 this would be a good replacement for Gran Colombia.
Tlingit/Haida- Sooner or later I'd like to see a PNW tribe.
Too late.I chose every single bloody one.
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
I just wanted to post a joke one. I'll get rid of the following:You voted for splinter states like Québéc, Texas, Palmares, Rio Grande do Sul, and Tlaxcalla; for mesolithic tribes like the Inuit and Yanomami; and for an assortment of tiny postcolonial nation-states. I'm judging you.
Quebec
Inuit
Tarasco
Palmares
Rio Grande de Sul
Tlaxcala
Yanomami
Mixtec
Toltec
Zapotec
Tupinamba
Jamaica
Alexander's Hetaroi
Deity
Good job for keeping the right one.
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
Given that I have made a Texas Civ Idea, I'm a bit biased.Good job for keeping the right one.
I don't see it happening in Civ6, but one day, someday, I think Mixtec or Zapotec would make a great civ.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Tarasco? That's the Purépecha, the archrival empire of the Aztecs. Weird choice to suddenly exclude!
And they're culturally fascinating, potentially with Andean cultural influences all the way over in Mesoamerica.
And they're culturally fascinating, potentially with Andean cultural influences all the way over in Mesoamerica.
Duke William of Normandy
King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee
Oops...
Didn't know.
Ryansinbela
King
I wonder how Texas will be handled with America in the game
Alexander's Hetaroi
Deity
Probably just a mod, like they were in Civ 5. More specifically if they base it off the Republic of Texas they wouldn't have to use the names of Houston, Dallas, or San Antonio.
Instead they could just use Harrisburg or San Antonio de Bexar, and Dallas wasn't really a thing back then.
Ryansinbela
King
Thanks for the idea with the Capital issue, now to rename Dijon for Burgundy
Henri Christophe
L'empereur
They are one of the biggest community in Amazonia rainflorest
Their leader can be Davi Kopenawa Yanomami
Ryansinbela
King
He is not dead yet and is pretty recent
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Ahhhh, Amazonian people.
Unfortunately the Yanomani appears to be one of the largest groups largely because they were so remote the Western World barely had contact with them until the mid-twentieth century. That makes it hard to have any reference material to build on them. I don't see them as a particularly good candidate, sadly.
Unfortunatelyu poor documentation is a broad problem in the region. Though a Kuhikugu City State would be really, really, really good. The Amazonian cities should not be ignored.
Unfortunately the Yanomani appears to be one of the largest groups largely because they were so remote the Western World barely had contact with them until the mid-twentieth century. That makes it hard to have any reference material to build on them. I don't see them as a particularly good candidate, sadly.
Unfortunatelyu poor documentation is a broad problem in the region. Though a Kuhikugu City State would be really, really, really good. The Amazonian cities should not be ignored.
SandFli
Chieftain
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2011
- Messages
- 53
Hi. It's getting late in the game, so a small selection is probably the most to hope for. For me, with the western half of North America entirely unoccupied on TSL maps, geographic range is an important factor. While historic fame and famous leaders would help to sell another expansion, cultural distinction is also key to introduce truly new Civs that offer some refreshing gameplay changes. I'd like to see something new. For these reasons, the Iroquois in particular, along with the Powhatan, Cherokee or Chickasaw, feel slightly lower priority to me (too much overlap), though I'd welcome any of these. In short, I see 4 very general groups (by amorphous region) that would 'cover' the missing representation of the Americas:
1. Great Plains: Sioux, Commanche, Shoshone: a nomadic horse culture in Americas with immense potential for abilities & roles (eg. resource gathering, appeal, borders, diplomacy, city moving...)
& South-West: Navajo, Apache: additional or alternate area of choice to the above, perhaps with more focus on raiding & survival. All have a choice of leaders - minus that, I'd list the Anasazi too..
2. Caribbean: Haiti, Arawak, Taino: to give the Caribbean some credit, Haiti being ideal with the right mechanics, a radical turtle Civ focussed on defence, infrastructure, policies, resources, pop, etc
3. Arctic & PNW: Inuit, Haida, Tlingit: another Civ to take advantage of the empty Snow and Tundra, maritime hunters combining culture and combat, with early advantages to counter the TSL Cree
4. The Eastern Woods: Iroquois, Powhatan, Cherokee, Creek: all significant choices, yet their inclusion likely eliminates one or more of those above that could better introduce very new elements
For TSL coverage specifically, I'd suggest adding the Apache and Haida to North America, and to increase colonial related options, perhaps the Iroquois, and Haiti.
1. Great Plains: Sioux, Commanche, Shoshone: a nomadic horse culture in Americas with immense potential for abilities & roles (eg. resource gathering, appeal, borders, diplomacy, city moving...)
& South-West: Navajo, Apache: additional or alternate area of choice to the above, perhaps with more focus on raiding & survival. All have a choice of leaders - minus that, I'd list the Anasazi too..
2. Caribbean: Haiti, Arawak, Taino: to give the Caribbean some credit, Haiti being ideal with the right mechanics, a radical turtle Civ focussed on defence, infrastructure, policies, resources, pop, etc
3. Arctic & PNW: Inuit, Haida, Tlingit: another Civ to take advantage of the empty Snow and Tundra, maritime hunters combining culture and combat, with early advantages to counter the TSL Cree
4. The Eastern Woods: Iroquois, Powhatan, Cherokee, Creek: all significant choices, yet their inclusion likely eliminates one or more of those above that could better introduce very new elements
For TSL coverage specifically, I'd suggest adding the Apache and Haida to North America, and to increase colonial related options, perhaps the Iroquois, and Haiti.
