Amurites - How to make the most out of them?

[Micky Onimusha]

I've found myself quite drawn to the civ lately, particularly by the Firebows. I've played one game with Vallendia mid-way-ish - I got to the Firebow stage and was loving them. Fireball-down cities and then take them on with Firebows like they were city raiders, knowing they get a comfortable bonus at City Defending as well after they've gone conquering. Bit like Siege Equipment and City takers all rolled into one, and not too shabby at moving with Mob I and Haste. I'm sure I never got far enough into the game to truly get a hold of their potential, but they are a major selling point to me. Anyway, I ultimately got frustrated with my map and quit the game to start over, but now I have my sights quite set on magical masters.

First off... the leader choice? Vallendia's big bonus is the Command Posts obviously. To be honest, I never quite clicked with Organised as a trait, since Command Posts show up a bit late and I rarely see much out of the -50% civic cost or double production of Courthouses and Lighthouses. Dain on the other hand gets an 100% GPP bonus, and I'm quite the fan of bulbing RoK early for a steady Gold income; and great people in general are neat. Double production on Elder Councils and Libraries isn't half bad either, certainly better than Courthouses and Lighthouses in my eyes. I'm leaning towards Dain but was seeking other people's input (obviously) on this too; pros & cons, etc...

Tech pathing? One thing that seems clear to me is despite them being a magical civ, they don't really need to beeline down the magical path early. Cave of the Ancestors + Arcane Potency means fresh Adepts should be rather well off for XP, no need to loiter waiting for it to build up. Obviously, getting a hold of Govannon makes Arcane Lore something to strive for, but it doesn't seem to me that I should be in a super-rush to get there.

The problem I noticed in my last game as them was I simply hadn't taken enough territory early on. With that in mind, do I go warlike as them, or peaceful but rapid expansive? This is the area I'm particularly keen on getting tips for, since getting a good early foothold is vital. What's people's early game strategies with them? They don't seem ideal as early Warmongers but a rush down to Bronze Working with Copper and Swordsmen could be viable. On the other hand, Archery is easily in reach now so a Settler spam + RoK (to help offset costs) + Archers could allow for a wide early empire... or could it?

See, all these little questions and coulds and ifs and maybes, I don't actually know the answers, that's why I make a topic and hope someone does have them.

Also, final little tidbit about Govannon - IYO, what are the priority spells to be get for Gov? Looking at the Tier I spell-set, Body for Haste and Death for the infamous Skeleton horde seem to be the first priorities. Mind seems nice for a passive science bonus, just having City Archers idly casting Inspiration. Chaos, Shadow and Spirit also seem nice to have a unit to cast DoB, Blur and Courage out on the field, DoB and Blur in particular since they need to be refreshed.

But yeah... enough of me rambling... Amurites, how do you guys go about with them?

 

[Thunder_Gr]

I always play Dain. I think Valendia is not as good for a Magic aspiring Civ.
Amurites start with body, metamagic and fire mana. So, haste readily from Knowledge of the ether, and a recon summon(floating eye). Available. Should it be that the elves are getting into my nose, blaze may be usefull, but hasn't happened to me, yet...

My strategy: Research up to Knowledge of the Ether. After that go for calendar and education(meantime building a mages guild and Catacomb libralus. Running God King as civic). If there are lots of hills around my cities I go for mining, else I skip it and research Elementalism(to build a second fire node asap and get the Fire I free for adepts). In order to copensate for the luck of military research, I just build many adepts. They are as effective as warriors in battle. After researching sorcery, I pause a bit and get to philosophy, fishing, mining. The basics.

Of course a lot is depended on the situation at every game. Where did I start? How many mana nodes reachable. What neighbours do I have((If I don;t have any, its party time!! ). If there are aggressive neighbours I go for archery before elementalism, just to be sure.

Before building Govannon, I have already a plan. Worst case scenario->No mana nodes available! Too bad!!! Govannon will only be able to teach the 3 basic spheres and this will cost him 3 promotions. Best case Scenario->3 or more. For each new node available, I try to have at least 2 of every mana type possible to save promotions from Govannon, since he only have so many. So, obviously I go first for the 3 already supplied by the palace. Even with only 2 nodes, I can have him gain combat or spell promotions and still be able to teach a new sphere each time he levels up. Unfortunatelly, in my last game I had only one, so he remained very weak, but he learned 9 spheres and it was enough to win the game.

Death is a must sphere. Shadow is a great shere. Fire is importand for teaching your future priests fireball. All elemental spheres are handy if you are aiming for Druids, since they make an extra set of archmages+benefits.
In addition, Death allows for Archmages to become Liches, thus another 4 Archamage slots. The problem with Liches is that they cannot be hasted, though.
Earth can be good, except for the earth elemental, if you want your mages to do some fighting.
I have at least one wizard per city to have Mind I and Spirit II for the obvious benefits in research, happiness and free courage promotion.
I also have 1 wizard with Enchantment II with Govanon, so that the units I bring to be taught, are also having their weapons enchanted.

All wizards are upgraded using combat and Mobility promotions,( unless they are to be assined support duties, where they upgrade all the necessary support spheres), and Govanon teaching. Specializing the wizards for offensive role is significant and the mainstream of wizards are equipped with Fire II, Air II. I use regular units for haste. And all minor tasks are away from my main wizard force and in the hands of regular military units and workers.

Well, the rest goes to combat tactics, but as far as I am concerned, Amurites are the best Magic Civ available in FFH2.

One more thing. I go for firebows, and after researching Arquebus, I still build firebows and upgrade them to Arquebus, so that they retain the Fire II promotion. Building Arquebus from scratch, will make them unable to cast fireball. And Firebows can cast hope if you mange to get them to level 3 and choose Spirit II, thus removing another task from a wizard.

 

[hegemonkhan]

it seems that u know them for the most part, i'll jsut re-iterate what u already mentioned and add some of my own thoughts:

1. go for either firebow units or arcane units or both (after the "initial stage").

2. obviously late game archmages and lots of mana types and cave of ancestors and such buildings make the amurites a "powerhouse" in the late game.

3. dain vs vallendia. the only reason the good players go for vellendia is because they are going for/using firebows and the combat ability of command posts and organized trait (i can't remember all the things organized trait does. there might be something that it does that helps with combat or more exp for new units made or is this that the command posts do...i can't remember what command posts do either...lol) to enchance them. so if u wanna go more warmongering with firebows and know what u doing and able to get command posts and great commanders than use vellendia leader. if not, than use dain (who is more "user-friendly" or easier to apply and use) with arcane units.

4A. early game is really hard if your against a smart person who knows to rush u. however, one good player, i forgot who used this against me in a game long ago. he rushed adapts and rushed over to my city (capitol) because i had a lot of plains. he used scorch? (amurites start with fire mana) and chnaged my plains into deserts. it crippled me so much that he got an easy win outa me.

4B. ach! i think fire no longer has scorch now (sun has scorch right? and fire now has blaze instead?) so this means it wont work as quickly as what was done to me in that game so long ago. though u can still get sun mana and then scorch players plains and cripple them severly. it's jsut take a little longer.

4C. this scorch-sun mana tactic is for the malakim civ as it starts with sun mana right? sorry for the mess up with the amurites.

5. u DO wanna rush to mage (err, wizard=mage) units (if u aren't going for firebows), so u have an actual offense ability (adapts don't exactly keep u alive very well) by putting the fear of "toasty" into your opponents with your fireballs or whatever and actually have the ability to win the game.

6. rushing archery, than to firebows, is definately the best bet for the early game (and to survive it) if u got smart players who are rushing u.

7. but after the early and early-mid game, the arcane units offer u the real "artillery".

 

[Sporkbomb]

I also have 1 wizard with Enchantment II with Govanon, so that the units I bring to be taught, are also having their weapons enchanted.[\QUOTE]

You might want to go a little farther with this by giving your other wizard the Law, Spirit, Enchantment, and nature spheres, if possible, and have him travel with Govannon. I did this in my game, and in four turns I could enhance every member of each stack in each city all of Govannon's buffs along with a combat promotion, courage, and loyalty (Firebows with Fire arrows and haste=lich killing madness! ). Also, that free metamagic mana will help you to maintain good control over your mana nodes, making the Tower of Mastery a valid victory option as well.

On top of all of that, making an arcane barge, upping its carrying capacity, and loading it full of Firebows will give an artillery ship for those coastal invasions, and if you team them up with other naval units, you can control the seas as well, by using those fireballs like cruise missles. (insert manaical laughter here - )

 

[Thunder_Gr]

You might want to go a little farther with this by giving your other wizard the Law, Spirit, Enchantment, and nature spheres, if possible, and have him travel with Govannon. I did this in my game, and in four turns I could enhance every member of each stack in each city all of Govannon's buffs along with a combat promotion, courage, and loyalty (Firebows with Fire arrows and haste=lich killing madness! ). Also, that free metamagic mana will help you to maintain good control over your mana nodes, making the Tower of Mastery a valid victory option as well.

On top of all of that, making an arcane barge, upping its carrying capacity, and loading it full of Firebows will give an artillery ship for those coastal invasions, and if you team them up with other naval units, you can control the seas as well, by using those fireballs like cruise missles. (insert manaical laughter here - )

Good points. But the Courage was gained by the city(hope in the city), Loyalty by a worker or any other unit already taught(no need for a wizard to do the job), and,by the way, I do give a Nature II promotion to the wizard, just forgot to mention it

I do not usually move Govannon around much, Unless I was lucky enough to get him 1 or 2 level III sphere promotions. So, for the most part, the units go to govannon. not the other way around. I set up a ring of my 5 core cities, which they do all troop production, which are then transported to the other cities. When playing the Amurites, I usually manage to get Nexus built, so transportation is much easier. The 1 time I didn't make I just built Obsidian gates in my 5 Core cities and in 1 city of each important area, to have a 2-way transportation easily.

When I have to control the seas, I do a similar thing. I build 4 Arcane Barges, 6 MoW and 1 QotL, load them with wizards and whatever my mainstream troops are and go for it. Fortunatelly, there is no marksman for ships .

Nice strategies. I am glad there are more people that favor the Amurites. For a while I thought it was only me!

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Firebow rush is a lot more viable now because archery allows lumbermills. Get bronze for a solid early military, then archery, then while you are researching bowyers, you can spam lumbermills to give yourself the production to really crank the firebows out once they become available.

Anyone else find it funny how the Luchuirp start setting the world on fire at sorcery, while the amurites, the magocracy, use bowyers to do that?

4A. early game is really hard if your against a smart person who knows to rush u. however, one good player, i forgot who used this against me in a game long ago. he rushed adapts and rushed over to my city (capitol) because i had a lot of plains. he used scorch? (amurites start with fire mana) and chnaged my plains into deserts. it crippled me so much that he got an easy win outa me.

4B. ach! i think fire no longer has scorch now (sun has scorch right? and fire now has blaze instead?) so this means it wont work as quickly as what was done to me in that game so long ago. though u can still get sun mana and then scorch players plains and cripple them severly. it's jsut take a little longer.

4C. this scorch-sun mana tactic is for the malakim civ as it starts with sun mana right? sorry for the mess up with the amurites.

Scorch is auto-war, at least now. If he was already at war with you... well, if you couldn't kill a bunch of scorch spamming adepts, he had you beat anyway.

 

[hegemonkhan]

Scorch is auto-war, at least now. If he was already at war with you... well, if you couldn't kill a bunch of scorch spamming adepts, he had you beat anyway. -monkeyfinger

1v1, duel size map

i foolishly thought that i didn't need to worry and so didn't have enough warriors and didn't think he could do any harm anyways (i had enough warriors that he couldn't take my city, i just didn't have enough warriors to attack his adapt units and wipe them out), but obviously i was very wrong

he was a good player and didn't forget about such spells and used them to win, whereas most average players would completely ignore such spells, like me (but not anymore!!!).

 

[popejubal]

Also, final little tidbit about Govannon - IYO, what are the priority spells to be get for Gov? Looking at the Tier I spell-set, Body for Haste and Death for the infamous Skeleton horde seem to be the first priorities. Mind seems nice for a passive science bonus, just having City Archers idly casting Inspiration. Chaos, Shadow and Spirit also seem nice to have a unit to cast DoB, Blur and Courage out on the field, DoB and Blur in particular since they need to be refreshed.

Take a good look at the Tier II spells and Priests. Priests are immediately buildable and Priests have Channeling II, so they can cast level 2 spells if they get a promotion and a visit with Govannon.

I quite like Death II, Earth II, Body I and II and even Water II if you have intercontinental invasions to plan.

Mind I and Earth I are also amazingly good since they give your Garrison units something worthwhile to do while guarding the cities. Priests can also cast Spirit II if they are hanging around in a city.

Finally, Metamagic I is lovely for your recon and mounted units. Being able to fling a unit 4 tiles into an opposing empire and then cast the Metamagic I spell to view a far off mountaintop is well worth the sacrifice of a 5 XP scout or Chariot.

 

[popejubal]

One last thought. Don't forget to have Govannon teach your adepts before they start using their promotions after being built. 1 extra move and Combat III is a nifty bonus to offer to new 10 XP mages when they get that upgrade since they'll already have all of their Level I spells.

 

[nealhunt]

First off... the leader choice? Vallendia's big bonus is the Command Posts obviously. To be honest, I never quite clicked with Organised as a trait, since Command Posts show up a bit late and I rarely see much out of the -50% civic cost or double production of Courthouses and Lighthouses. Dain on the other hand gets an 100% GPP bonus, and I'm quite the fan of bulbing RoK early for a steady Gold income; and great people in general are neat. Double production on Elder Councils and Libraries isn't half bad either, certainly better than Courthouses and Lighthouses in my eyes. I'm leaning towards Dain but was seeking other people's input (obviously) on this too; pros & cons, etc...

Personally, I love Philo, but +2XP on Firebows to pick up Fire II is pretty much mandatory, so those Command Posts are really nice and allow you more options in choosing civics.

On the other hand, Archery is easily in reach now so a Settler spam + RoK (to help offset costs) + Archers could allow for a wide early empire... or could it?

Works great.

Also, final little tidbit about Govannon - IYO, what are the priority spells to be get for Gov?

Death. You'll have all sorts of free-XP units with spell spheres, so being able to promote Liches on top of High Priests and Archmages is very valuable. And, of course, with skeletons being permanent summons having every unit provide a slot gives a ridiculous amount of skeletons if you want them.

Usually, I'll pick a mana node someplace safe, park a Mage with Metamagic II/Dispel on it and rotate through any spheres I don't have, promoting Govannon to as many different Sphere I's as possible. Meanwhile, I park Govannon in a town near where I anticipate a fight and start stockpiling units there to teach. Personally, I like using Priests as my workhorse spellcasters. There's a thread about it here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=294300

In short, Govannon-taught Priests can do everything Mages do, only better. The sole exception being promotion to Archmages. They can, however, become High Priests and then cast Lichedom.

 

[JFSebastian]

I haven't played them much, but the last time I did, I found it a lot of fun to run CoE and build Nightwatch to convert to Chanters (assassins). This way every Chanter will have mask and be able to cross enemy lines as they wish and make nice use of their special ability to escape. I think they have one of the stronger synergies with CoE as a state religion. Building scouts gambling on the 20% chance of CoE is way too frustrating if you want mask casting assassins.

 

[popejubal]

I haven't played them much, but the last time I did, I found it a lot of fun to run CoE and build Nightwatch to convert to Chanters (assassins). This way every Chanter will have mask and be able to cross enemy lines as they wish and make nice use of their special ability to escape. I think they have one of the stronger synergies with CoE as a state religion. Building scouts gambling on the 20% chance of CoE is way too frustrating if you want mask casting assassins.

Nightwatch -> Rangers -> Druids is also a bundle of fun. Having Druids to wander around murdering my neighbors was just so funny even if it was probably not the best use for the Nature boys.

 

[hbar]

I've found that rushing several religions (if possible) can help a lot, because you can get several shrines (esp. w/ Dain and his Philo trait) which means more mana = faster wizards. RoK is huge for the Amurites, because they are the only civ that has to pay ~100 for their main military unit. If you are getting attacked a lot, the drill line is great for your archers so they gain XP (from defensive strikes) while you research Bowyers. Keep in mind that the Cave of the Ancestors only gives free XP for unique mana, not duplicates. (This is not at all clear in the pedia, but it is clear as day in the code and apparently intended that way.) If you have lots of different types of mana (CoA and tower victory), the best summon is the Djinn (Meta III).

 

[Micky Onimusha]

I forgot about the potential of Priests as make-shift Mages actually. I also forgot the value of the free Shrine Mana, which is something I'll have to keep in mind next time. Allso hbar, thanks for the CotA info. I overlooked the potential of Chanters, which could provide some interesting potential (especially mixed with CoE).

I'm going to try a beeline for Firebows rather than Mages. The improvement in Archery's accessibility does make it a more attractive option, but I'll see how the experience goes. Hopefully it'll be a sucess, or at least interesting.

Edit: One thing I've really noticed is that "rushing" for Bowyers is a slow process. It's very expensive. Been having an interesting game right now. Surroudned by the Sheaim, Elohim, Clan and Hippus with the Calabim far off. Early on The Sheaim and Elohim (yeah, the peace hippies ). Managed to fend off their early skirmishes, after all, 2 Scouts + 2 Warriors attacking fortified hill Warriors are never going to win, but since then, Rhoanna crushed the Elohim, The Clan and Sheaim have ganged up on me and Rhoanna's been dominating (she's got twice the score of 2nd place), luckily I've stayed on good terms with her and even got her to take on the Clan. They really are mercenaries, Currency in exchange for keeping my enemy busy and keeping herself busy too.

5 turns away from Bowyers, hopefully soon I'll be able to test the true power of Firebows. I have Form of the Titan, the Heroic Epic and a Command Post (free GC) all in one city, so I hope to be pumping those babies out at a rapid rate. Let's see them try to mess with me now!

Edit: Hmm, this isn't quite the turning point I hoped it'd be. Not pumping them out fast enough. Really turtled up, almost like a 2-city challenge at the moment. Clinging onto my RoK holy city and my capital, but hordes of Pyre Zombies are getting hard to repel, even with the help of Fireballs. I'm thinking maybe the beeline up the Magic path is wiser actually. Getting to Wizards is a cheaper path tech-wise than to Bowyers. I think I'm gonna get wiped, especially if my good relations with Rhoanna fall apart

 

[nealhunt]

Edit: Hmm, this isn't quite the turning point I hoped it'd be.

The "beeline" to Bowyers really needs to consist of a couple of stages. In the first stage you need to chase Archery and econ techs first while expanding. You can even divert enough to do an archer/cat rush against a vulnerable neighbor.

Then when you have a decent economic base make the second stage beeline to Bowyers. Also, stockpile up a few archers and the money to upgrade them to Firebows right away. They won't get Fireball until their next promotion, but they are still good units. They will be some of the first to attack or defend, so they'll level up pretty quickly.

 

[hbar]

Yeah, last time I rushed firebows I had a start almost exactly the same, but sans Hippus (I had Varn in their place) and the Doviello instead of the Elohim. I used a OrthusAxe-equipped axeman to wipe out the sheaim early, but I couldn't afford to keep the cities, so I ended up giving the clan more room to expand (bad idea). I ended up getting firebow just in time to meet a double offensive of clan and Dov. units, got lots of XP real fast, and held onto my two precious cities for about 50 turns. After that, the clan went to war against a much larger Varn, and I got to wipe out the Dov. All in all, a lot of it was based on luck and timing. If I did it again, I'd get sorcery first and then firebows.

 

[Micky Onimusha]

The "beeline" to Bowyers really needs to consist of a couple of stages. In the first stage you need to chase Archery and econ techs first while expanding. You can even divert enough to do an archer/cat rush against a vulnerable neighbor.

Then when you have a decent economic base make the second stage beeline to Bowyers. Also, stockpile up a few archers and the money to upgrade them to Firebows right away. They won't get Fireball until their next promotion, but they are still good units. They will be some of the first to attack or defend, so they'll level up pretty quickly.

That sounds about right. I was only able to get two cities in place before the wars broke out, managed to squeeze out a third but it was the first to fall (in fact, fell 2 turns before the arrival of Firebows). I did stockpile Archers, as I neared Bowyers, I even saved a prom for when I upgrade them, but I think I was done by numbers ultimately. Next time around I think I might try to play it as a normal game and leave the Firebows 'til later. As you said, make a decent economic base.

I'm tempted to try the Sorcery rush instead next time over. Can still get my way to Fireballing mages that way.

 

[hbar]

This thread got me itching to play the Amurites again, and here's what I found (Dain, Monarch difficulty, Normal speed, Erebus Continent map). I founded RoK early and got the Mines of Gal-Dur which gave me iron equipped Soldiers of Kilmorph - that took care of the melee line. I then got Archery for archers (duh) and lumberthingies (man do I like that change). Then I pushed hard for sorcery, bowyers, and arcane lore (for Govanon). Biggest takeaway lesson - having an archer with a fireball is nice, but there are so many better options. Longbowman with Stoneskin? Water-walking longbowman to protect your mage and cultist stack? How about Maelstrom? Hope? Regeneration? I had every conquered city garrisoned with 1 flaming arrows & stoneskin firebow and 1 Stonewarden with Hope, inspiration, wall of stone and either regeneration or maelstrom. That was a fun game.