Amurites Questions

[baixiwei]

Hey, so I was reading this post about how to play the Amurites, and ran into a bunch of stuff I couldn't understand. It would be great if someone here could help me out. So here goes:

>>>
[Having Govannon] means that you can effectively get 16 archmages, not counting any heroic ones. That is 4 Archmages, 4 Liches, 4 Druids, and 4 high priests.
>>>

Why does it mean that?

First of all, in what sense can liches, druids, and high priests be considered as Archmages, and how does that result from having Govannon?

Secondly, I thought you need to be the appropriate religion to have any one of liches, druids, and high priests - how is it possible to have all 3 of these at once?

>>>
Twincast super summoner
>>>

What is "twincast" and how do you get it?

 

[esvath]

Hey, so I was reading this post about how to play the Amurites, and ran into a bunch of stuff I couldn't understand. It would be great if someone here could help me out. So here goes:

>>>
[Having Govannon] means that you can effectively get 16 archmages, not counting any heroic ones. That is 4 Archmages, 4 Liches, 4 Druids, and 4 high priests.
>>>

Why does it mean that?

First of all, in what sense can liches, druids, and high priests be considered as Archmages, and how does that result from having Govannon?

Archmage with Death 3 can cast Lichdom. He retains all of his spell, gain undead and become another unit class. Thus, freeing your archmage slot. If you turned all of your Archmagi into Liches, then you can promote another 4 into Archmagi. Thus, 4 Liches + 4 Archmagi = 8 Archmagi.

Govannon can teach any units magic promotion level 1 (Air 1, Earth 1, etc). Any units with Channeling 2 and 3 can learn magic promotion level 2 if they have level 1. So if Govannon teaches Air 1 to your Druids and High Priest (they have Channeling 2 and 3), the Druids and High Priests then will be able to learn Air 2 and Air 3, just like your Archmage. The only difference is, your Druids and High Priests can not learn new spell spheres by themselves. Govannon have to teach them new spell spheres.

Secondly, I thought you need to be the appropriate religion to have any one of liches, druids, and high priests - how is it possible to have all 3 of these at once?

To have Liches = you have Archmage with Death 3.

To have Druids = you have neutral alignment, build one and then you can switch to other alignment. The druids won't abandon you (so technically, you may have Druids, Paladins and Eidolons at the same time).

To have High Priests = you have a religion (except Council of Esus) as your state religion, research Theology (if I'm not mistaken) and have incense (or gems, for RoK high priests).

Thus, acquiring one does not prevent the others.

>>>
Twincast super summoner
>>>

What is "twincast" and how do you get it?

Twincast in base FfH is a promotion causing any summoning spell you cast produce two units. So, your Summon Spectre will give you *two* Spectre (instead of one).

 

[Calavente]

twincast needs the "hero" promotion + combat V.

As for teaching druids and High priests...
Normaly, Govannon can NOT teach disciples units.

So the only way to do it is :
-have FoL religion somewhere + at least 1 FoL temple !
-build 8 scouts.
-have govannon teach them ALL the lvl mana spheres you want. (you won't be able to learn them latter, even with govannon.
-switch to FOL state religion.
-upgrade your scouts to priests of leaves (they can learn all lvl2 of the mana spheres)
-then upgrade said 8 priests of leaves to 4archmagi-druids or to 4archmagi-highpriest.

another solution is just to give DeathI to the scout, upgrade him to Priest of leaves then druid.
learn death III (and command III); cast death III ;
--> You are the new owner of a Divine-Lich : a lich with divine spells of FOL + command III + medic 2 + heal AND can learn new mana spheres from govannon and even by himself. (it is thus a better lich than a normal lich due to the access to divine spells.)
---> + no need to have lvl 6 nor "strength of will" in order to have lvlIII spells.

only issues :
-the divine-lich misses 3 free promotions that normal archmages (and normal lichs) have (1 from birth, 1 from upgrade to mage and 1 from upgrade to archmage)
-The divine-lich do not have the potency promotion given by the arcane trait
-the divine-lich do not have the free experience given by the caves of the ancestors.

-all your druids have FOL divine sphere and cast treants.

In reality I like to have my 4 druids to come from different religion; (a RoK divine druid, casting "earthquake" is wonderful for cracking cities : no fortifying defense, and maybe a wall down).

 

[Emptiness]

No special tricks are necessary for Govannon to teach spell spheres to (living) Divine units. He can teach almost all living units, with the exception of Animals and Hawks. Even workers or great people can be taught level one magic.

Scouts cannot be promoted to Disciples of Leaves. It is possible to promote a Scout to a Priest of Leaves if you are playing the Elohim, but then you won't have access to Govannon. This promotion isn't necessary, however, because Govannon can teach Divine units.

Non-Arcane units (such as Druids or High Priests) that cast Lichdom will become Arcane units, and if your leader has the Arcane trait (as both Amurite leaders do) then the resulting Lich will be given Potency automatically.

 

[Calavente]

when did it change ? IIRC, in the last "vanilla FFH" game I played with amurite, I couldn't teach to disciples units.
Maybe I didn't notice the change in some patch's changelog...

For potency, it is a nice thing to know !

 

[Emptiness]

I think Govannon has been able to teach Disciple units for as long as I've been playing, but of course I could be wrong.

 

[Calavente]

in "fire", disciple magic was not linked to religion but to a mana sphere's disciples spells.
In consequence, if govannon teached any spell to a disciple unit, he could launche the disciples spells of those mana sphere that were not related to the religion.

as for druids, they had the "spellcaster", "summoner" and "disciple" promotions and could launch related spells from nature mana.
so if govannon could teach them any other spellsphere, they could launch all summons spells and divine spells of any sphere.

thus, at least at that time, Govannon could not teach to disciples units.

after that, in "ice", it changed, the summoner/spellcaster promotions disappeared, the divine spells were related to religion and no more to mana.

I still thought that disciples units could not learn from govannon.

Maybe it changed in "shadow" ?

 

[esvath]

In current version, disciples get spells from having Channeling 2 and 3 AND religion. Cure and Heal are linked with Medic 2 and 3.

As with Govannon's Teach ability, looking at the code, :

	for i in range(pPlot.getNumUnits()):
		pUnit = pPlot.getUnit(i)
		if pUnit.getOwner() == iPlayer:
			if pUnit.isAlive():
				if pUnit.getUnitCombatType() != iAnimal:
					if pUnit.getSpecialUnitType() != iBird:
						for iProm in range(len(lList)):
							if not pUnit.isHasPromotion(lList[iProm]):
								pUnit.setHasPromotion(lList[iProm], True)
								if not pUnit.isHasPromotion(iChanneling1):
									pUnit.setHasPromotion(iChanneling1, True)

Then it is obvious that the ability will teach any spell 1 promo AND Channeling 1 to any living, non-Animal, non-Bird units owned by Govannon's owner and currently in the same tile. Thus, priests and druids too.

 

[Emptiness]

in "fire", disciple magic was not linked to religion but to a mana sphere's disciples spells.
In consequence, if govannon teached any spell to a disciple unit, he could launche the disciples spells of those mana sphere that were not related to the religion.

as for druids, they had the "spellcaster", "summoner" and "disciple" promotions and could launch related spells from nature mana.
so if govannon could teach them any other spellsphere, they could launch all summons spells and divine spells of any sphere.

thus, at least at that time, Govannon could not teach to disciples units.

Ah, so. That predates me.