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An End to War

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Bigfoot3814, Jun 16, 2009.

  1. Bigfoot3814

    Bigfoot3814 Deity

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    Last week I watched a short Journeyman Pictures documentary called "The Objector". You can see it in it's entirety on youtube, but it certainly won't be necessary to discuss what I'm about to bring up.

    The film is mainly about conscientious objectors in today's US military. These are people who join the military, get sent to battle, and find themselves unable to perform their duties as soldiers. They've been trained and certified, but in the thick of the fight, they can't bring themselves to kill another person. Some find themselves completely opposed to the idea of war in and of itself.

    This is far from a new idea, the documentary says. One fact they bring up a few times is that during World War II, only 1/4 of the people who had an opportunity to kill the enemy actually went and did it. The rest were unofficial conscientious objectors, giving in to their natural resistance to wanting to kill another human being. I found this particular fact very interesting, because usually even the most anti-war people agree that WWII was justified (by that I mean fighting Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan). Some might even say it was a "good fight".

    Towards the end of the piece, one of the conscientious objectors from today's US military said something to the effect of mankind moving beyond the concept of war and killing, the same way we've moved beyond such things as slavery.

    Having been a participant in many war-related discussions right here on CFC, I know that many of you don't support killing or wars of any kind for any reason. So I'd like to know what you think about the idea that mankind can move beyond war the same way it's moved beyond slavery, or whatever else you're thinking about all this.
     
  2. Greizer85

    Greizer85 Emperor

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    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." -Jack Handey

    ;)
     
  3. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    We haven't moved beyond slavery.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_trafficking

    Anyway, we'll have war until we mess around in the human genome and remove hate/aggression/etc. and spread it to the world... and then we wouldn't really be fully human anymore, would we...
     
  4. Sashie VII

    Sashie VII Balance of Power

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    Interesting. At a glance my thoughts were that we may be able to move beyond a full scale war, but there will always be (smaller) armed conflicts.
     
  5. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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  6. Gustave5436

    Gustave5436 Emperor

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    Why are wars fought?

    I would argue that they are fought over resources. Hence, a cooperative, rather than competitive, economic system could utterly eliminate war.
     
  7. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    Yes, but a OWG communist state is not going to be coming for a long, long, long, long, long time if ever... and then there might be rebels...
     
  8. Gustave5436

    Gustave5436 Emperor

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    The collectivist system used by Bolshevik dictatorships is merely a modified version of capitalism; it is still a competitive system at heart, exemplified by the continued existence of the State.

    A proper cooperative system would be incompatible with rebellion; one cannot rebel against himself, after all. However, that is precisely where power must reside in order for a system to be cooperative, as in order for a society to be cooperative it must be comprised of equals.

    Regardless of what your crystal ball tells you about when a libertarian society might arise, it is a possibility, and therefore it is, indeed, possible to end war. I, for one, do not have a crystal ball, and so I cannot say whether it is humanity which will end war or vice versa, but I should certainly hope that it would be the former.
     
  9. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    You beat me to it.
     
  10. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    I would suspect that the other 3/4 might not have killed for less compelling reasons, such as fear of being shot at back... (not that I trust your figures in the first place)


    However, I don't see the continuation of war as inevitable, sure people will be hateful selfish jerks long into the future, but there's no logical requirement that hateful selfish jerks must engage in mass coalitional violence.
     
  11. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    War is something we'll never get rid of.

    The only reason we have wars to begin with is because the other guy starts them. When somebody goes insane and starts killing other people around them, how else are you supposed to deal with them? When they refuse to talk to you, when none of your other methods will stop them, there's simply no choice but to pull out a gun and shoot them. (One particularly scary police video I recently watched was of a crazed maniac--high on PCP--who was stark naked, trying to break into a school or a day care center or some such, and who kept pulling out the electrodes every time the police tasered him :eek: )

    You, reader, are not the problem. The other guy is.
     
  12. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    I don't think that your pessimism is entirely warranted. Certainly, we could never get rid of all of these sorts of incidents at an individual or small group level, but good governments that understand these issues and also have stakes in the proper functioning of other governments might be improved to the point where such incidents won't occur at the transnational level.
     
  13. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Absolutely. The problem lies in getting those governments established--and keeping them in place. With Iraq, an invasion was the only way to do it. And once such governments are established, how do you prevent insurgent factions from destroying them.....?

    With really big guns.
     
  14. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    Is this another one of that killology bollocks?
     
  15. Bronx Warlord

    Bronx Warlord Squad Leader

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    I found " On Killing " and " On Combat " to be good, thoughtful reading. Very accurate too, in many regards.
     
  16. Elta

    Elta 我不会把这种

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    Once everyone gets along as well as the U.S. and Canada do we will end war.


    Simple as that.
     
  17. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

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    Or China and N.Korea :mischief:
     
  18. Kozmos

    Kozmos Jew Detective

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    Interesting and accurate in some regards (on training and lessening the impact of killing) but nonetheless a lot of it's postulations have been debunked by other men who served as well. (veterans too, not just pencil pushers) Suspiciously all of the criticism section and links have mysteriously disappeared from the Wiki entry.
     
  19. Belisar

    Belisar Defender of Byzanz

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    So Iraq started a war and an invasion was the only method? Yeah... :sad:
     
  20. Elta

    Elta 我不会把这种

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    Yeah why not?

    The more similar we are to another the less we will argue.


    It is clear to me that we are becoming more similar than we are different - worldwide :)
     

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