An idea about a sort of Pseudo-Multimaps via code.

Somebody613

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Basically, we already have maps with Space in it, with various proportions of the latter compared to Earth.
So, how about we "multi-map" in a cheap way (because I think there WON'T be any real Multimapping until and unless the greedy original owners give up the EXE code, which is basically NEVER)?
Namely:
We entirely separate EARTH from SPACE, apart from one single unit - Spaceship.
Which can teleport into infinity (1000 plots means that), can only exist on SPACE terrain (Moon, or something).
Can only be built ONCE A GAME PER CIV, and can't be destroyed besides "building a Moon base".
But here comes the kicker:
When you actually USE it, it not just builds a Moon Base, but it FULLY WIPES OUT YOUR CIV ON EARTH!
(If it didn't, it wouldn't BE a MULTI-map, no?)
I was thinking about wiping out the ENTIRE Earth, but it's a bit illogical for OTHER cavemen to go to space when you do.
So it's like a "personal civ switch from Earth Stage to Space Stage", lol.
And the only changes required for this to be implemented are:
1. Total separation (in units and in maps) between Earth and Space.
2. The code that would wipe every other asset (even cities) when Moon Base is built.
3. Decent Space Exploration mechanic for the actual Space Stage gameplay to not be boring or stupid (OR "cities in Space", because that's NOT the goal).
I don't think it's THAT hard to implement, really.
And it's the closest we can get to at least TWO-in-one maps for now, or at least until there's a breakthrough.
Ideas? Opinions? Flames? LOL!
 
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tmv

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So - you would only have a moon base at this point? What are going to be your resources? How strong is your industry? Is any effort you did on Earth beyond the absolutely necessary wasted? Do you still have the entire map explored from Satellites? If you don't have "cities in space", where are you getting your economy, research, units, etc. from? Are there going to be aliens someday, and are they any kind of danger to Earth?
 

Somebody613

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So - you would only have a moon base at this point? What are going to be your resources? How strong is your industry? Is any effort you did on Earth beyond the absolutely necessary wasted? Do you still have the entire map explored from Satellites? If you don't have "cities in space", where are you getting your economy, research, units, etc. from? Are there going to be aliens someday, and are they any kind of danger to Earth?
There's plenty of NPC civ space for aliens, lol, and I really wish we'd get them eventually, what with the scope of the Future_FUTURE_F.U.T.U.R.E. Techs, ya know.

As of the "Space cities", that IS my point - to make it DIFFERENT in some way.
Because merely switching from Earth to Space in name only (rename "desert" to "Moon desert", rinse-repeat), well, is BORING.
And we have the beginning of this with Space-related unit Missions already, but it could be expanded a LOT from there.
My entire point is to truly make it a distinctly separate STAGE of the game, not merely a different TERRAIN with the same-ish mechanic.

As of "minimum -vs- maximum preparation", we already have "Tourism" - so we can just as easily have "Space Exploration" or whatnot.
Or a few, lol.
Like, "NASA" points for "space-related" buildings and events/missions while still on Earth - then being VERY useful once you switch to Space.
To the extent of literally UNLOCKING stuff (units, Missions, etc.) in the Space Stage.
Why not, indeed?

My entire point is that, once you go to Space, you STOP playing the Earth Stage entirely.
Probably still keep it revealed (or NOT, if we go for "less memory consumption") - and that'd be the POINT to begin with: it's a SEPARATE Stage, and that IS the point.
Not an extension of the Earth Stage, where your "Earthly achievements" still matter - but a separate Stage, where they actually DON'T, besides giving you some starting boosters.
I repeat again:
My POINT is that this should be a SEPARATE STAGE all along, lol.
Otherwise how would that even be Multi-Maps?
Or more specifically, MY idea of Multi-Maps was always based on Spore - and THERE you really stop playing the previous Stage, once you go to the next one.
Which is EXACTLY how I want THIS to play as well.

You (everyone and anyone) are FREE to disagree with me and/or provide YOUR own ideas.
I'm merely sharing MINE, lol.
 

tmv

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I suppose many of these ideas are a bit beyond the engine. Just doing away with cities seems to be a rather big problem, which is also delaying the nomadic start.

And with aliens I also meant Alien Invaders - I don't see how that would be presented with these proposals.
 

Somebody613

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I suppose many of these ideas are a bit beyond the engine. Just doing away with cities seems to be a rather big problem, which is also delaying the nomadic start.

And with aliens I also meant Alien Invaders - I don't see how that would be presented with these proposals.
I had a unit-only game not so long ago - well, I had a Hero unit roaming the map, lol, with absolutely nothing else existing for my civ.
That's what you get when you turn "complete kills(?)" ON, ya know.
So I don't see that being a problem for Nomadic Start either, unless you mean something else.
Heck, you even get Science that way (1 point per turn, but still).

And Aliens either can be just more Barbarians (but unlocked at SPACE+ Techs and/or terrains), or will have to wait for the actual Multi-Maps (to combine Earth and Space efficiently).
My suggestion is purely to separate Earth Stage from Space Stage as two SEPARATE sub-games, literally.
You don't have to like it, of course, lol.
 

Thunderbrd

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Gonna reject that we'll never have multimaps. We already do - there's just a little more work yet to be done to get it turned on and I've been held up on my end by a lot of distractions in the last year - trying to get back on track now that things are beginning to calm down enough that I can find a bit of time and energy and focus for it.
 

Somebody613

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Gonna reject that we'll never have multimaps. We already do - there's just a little more work yet to be done to get it turned on and I've been held up on my end by a lot of distractions in the last year - trying to get back on track now that things are beginning to calm down enough that I can find a bit of time and energy and focus for it.
Can you be a bit more specific - what will that look like?
But I'm extremely happy to hear it, indeed.
 

Maltazard

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So, I just remembered the way FfH2 does its scenarios: you first load a selector map, and then from there you choose a scenario and that then loads the scenario map. However in the selector map there isn't anything that would prevent nornal gameplay to take place. So you could have a spaceship trigger a new map/scenario with this mechanic, I think.

I have no idea why they don't just let you load straight into the scenarios, but I distinctly remember this convoluted system.
 

Somebody613

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So, I just remembered the way FfH2 does its scenarios: you first load a selector map, and then from there you choose a scenario and that then loads the scenario map. However in the selector map there isn't anything that would prevent nornal gameplay to take place. So you could have a spaceship trigger a new map/scenario with this mechanic, I think.

I have no idea why they don't just let you load straight into the scenarios, but I distinctly remember this convoluted system.
The distinctive idea of Multi-Maps is (or supposed to be) SIMULTANEOUS gameplay on more than one map.
Although I had once suggested "carrying over bonuses based on your efficiency in the first game map", what you mentioned still works differently anyways.
I don't think I've seen any mod being able to "RPG" your civ between maps/games.
Which is a huge pity, if you ask me - I'd love such a mechanic immensely.
 

Thunderbrd

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It is simultaneous gameplay on multiple maps and as a player you'll be able to choose to switch to viewing any of the other maps as long as they are in play, and some units can and will be able to move and/or target, from one map to another. There are are basics in place on this already but a lot of little details to making it an actual in-play reality that still need to be ironed out. Things like the mapscripts to generate them when they unlock, missions to move the units from one to another, mini popups to select targeting on another map, things like that.

The unit review I'm doing will set us up for at least an initial amount of intermap interaction.

Honestly, though, so much programming has already gone into setting this up that unless we just sputter out and give up, we WILL have this feature at some point. Much of the work that's been taking place behind the scenes has been to make the program as a whole more capable of handling it when we do get there.
 

Thunderbrd

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So, I just remembered the way FfH2 does its scenarios: you first load a selector map, and then from there you choose a scenario and that then loads the scenario map. However in the selector map there isn't anything that would prevent nornal gameplay to take place. So you could have a spaceship trigger a new map/scenario with this mechanic, I think.

I have no idea why they don't just let you load straight into the scenarios, but I distinctly remember this convoluted system.
There were numerous things they never did quite sort out that we have already - when they switched maps they were not able to maintain the recollection of the previous map at the same time I believe. Therefore, you could have a more 'personal' adventure party going through a dungeon but every time the level changed and a new map was introduced, it would completely discard information on the maps not currently in play. That was last time I was exploring ffh2 though so its been a while, but I didn't think they'd been doing too much more dev since c2c began.
 

Maltazard

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That's exactly right - which is why it came to mind, because it would fulfill Somebody's idea of discarding the earth map entirely once you go to space - a new, separate stage. Which of course is not necessary if you have functioning multimaps, but it is exactly what he suggested :p
 

Somebody613

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That's exactly right - which is why it came to mind, because it would fulfill Somebody's idea of discarding the earth map entirely once you go to space - a new, separate stage. Which of course is not necessary if you have functioning multimaps, but it is exactly what he suggested :p
I wasn't having high hopes until @Thunderbrd told me of that surprise, lol.
So I was going for the next best thing - at least having functional separate Earth and Space Stages, if we can't have functional Simultaneous Maps for both at once.
But if we CAN have the latter - of course, I'll choose THAT, loool.

And, again, @Thunderbrd and everyone else:
My dream is having Civ (well, C2C) play like Spore - where you actually CAN have simultaneous (or at least with remembered progress) gameplay of both on-planet and in-space Stages.
And when THAT happens, I'd very likely go and try making (or nag until someone else does it) a pre-HUMAN Stage as well, loool.
Or not, that's just For More Fun, ya know.
But it'd be a true breakthrough dream to be able to play Earth, Space, AND Other Planets - ALL in the same scenario, loool.
 

Thunderbrd

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But it'd be a true breakthrough dream to be able to play Earth, Space, AND Other Planets - ALL in the same scenario, loool.
It's the dream this mod has been striving towards for 15 years. We're closer than we seem.
 

Somebody613

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It's the dream this mod has been striving towards for 15 years. We're closer than we seem.
And I must clarify that I *don't* mean that as "merely different regions of the same map, like it is now with Space maps", though I'm sure you meant it the same way I do.
No, I mean literally starting on Earth, then going to Space, then landing on Alien Planet(s) and playing there just like on Earth, but with different stuff.
That is what I'm very much awaiting, indeed.
 

Laenaya

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You won't have to wait as long as compared to those of us waiting for Thrive to leave cell stage :p granted they finally made it to...MULTICELL stage, but its still cells :p

Also somebody613, that map you are making with a ton of civs and stuff, how is that coming along? I don't post almost at all, but figured I'd just pop up and ask. I mostly lurk a lot lol
 

Somebody613

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You won't have to wait as long as compared to those of us waiting for Thrive to leave cell stage :p granted they finally made it to...MULTICELL stage, but its still cells :p

Also somebody613, that map you are making with a ton of civs and stuff, how is that coming along? I don't post almost at all, but figured I'd just pop up and ask. I mostly lurk a lot lol
Haven't started yet.
The problem is that I'd rather do it over a short period of time, but it takes a very long one to actually start, loool.
 
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