1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

An idea for agendas

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Stringer1313, Sep 15, 2018.

  1. Stringer1313

    Stringer1313 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Messages:
    682
    I read a lot of complaints here, which I agree with, that the agendas are dumb because: a) the AI leaders don't actually pursue their agendas (with rare exceptions like Ghandi and the war agenda people like Alexander); and b) following an agenda has such limited diplomatic value b/c it is dwarfed by warmongering penalties.

    Not sure I'm the first to suggest the idea but what if they supercharged the agendas by giving big bonuses with each agenda, to the AI player, which will help compensate for the AI's deficiencies? So if you have Populous, then your population growth is doubled. If you like science, then your science rate is at 150%. If you like a big treasury you get additional gold. If you like ships, your ship production is at 300%. If you like people with Golden Ages, then your Dark Ages penalties are reduced (or something)

    Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas and Suggestions. leif
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2018
  2. Aussie_Lurker

    Aussie_Lurker Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    7,422
    Location:
    Adelaide, South Australia
    Yes, making Agendas much more important to AI civs is a must, but I am also thinking that it might be nice to make agendas more dynamic.

    The starting Agenda won't ever change, but the secondary agenda can-based on what happens during the game. Not sure if it should only be able to change once-or once per era-but have it being able to change based on the AI's in game experiences might be cool. For instance, a civ might begin with a populous agenda but-due to in game opportunities-finds itself with a very large navy. So at some point the secondary agenda might switch to a naval based one.

    Another possibility-either instead of or alongside-might be the ability to pick up a *new* hidden agenda. Again based on in-game experiences.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  3. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    715
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    I think they should get rid of the hidden Agenda altogether. ZOMG PEACEMONGERING NUKE GANDHI how novel. Replace it with a Personality& Strategy gauge, both of which are hidden at the start of the game and unlocked via DipVis or Espionage.

    Agenda: a pliable modifer based on the leader's morality (Gandhi's pacificism) or the civ's historical speciality (Mongolia's cavalry). The relations modifier decreases and increases according to how close the player is towards fulfilling or failing the Agenda requirements. (e.g. relations with Khmer improve for every Holy Site and Pop you have over them, not just by a fixed amount if you have more.) Also influences what the AI prioritizes, irrespective of personality and stategy, (see below)
    Personality: influences how the AI responds towards threatening civs (Belligerent, Pacifistic, Pragmatic, Honourable, Bold, Timid, Xenophobic, Philanthropic, Paranoid, Docile)
    Strategy: influences which yield the AI prioritizes, what they build in their cities, as well as their preferred means of winning the game (Expansionist, Admiral, Scholar, Cleric, Warrior, Patron, Industrialist, Builder, Populist, Explorer, Diplomat, Spymaster)

    Personality and Strategy are picked at random from 2-3 selections at the start of the game (so Gandhi can be a Pacifistic Diplomat in one game and a Paranoid Industrialist in another)

    There you have it: more nuanced diplomacy.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  4. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Unintentionally a feminist.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    715
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Belgium
    And for the record, this is how the more pliable historical agenda's would work

    Ally of Enkidu: increases for every turn spent as Friends and Allies and for every mutual friendship/alliance. Decreases when you denounce their friends and decreases drastically if at war with one of their friends. Relations modifiers from Alliance and War increased by 50%. Leaders with this personality will Join Wars more easily.

    An End to Suffering: relations increase for each Holy Site and citizen you have (Holy Sites are valued more). Relations decrease for every citizen and Holy Site Khmer have. Prioritises Housing and Faith more.

    Archipelagic State: relations increase for each city on a large landmass, and decrease (by a larger amount) for every city on a smaller landmass. Penalities scale in reverse according to landmass size. Cities on small islands are more valuable to leaders with this Agenda.

    Ayyubid Dynasty: Relations increase for every religious building you construct and increase by a larger amount if you build their worship building. Decreases for every worship building of other religions you build. Shared religion (or a lack thereof) impacts relations 30% more. Leaders with this Agenda build Holy Site and Campus buildngs more often.

    Backstab Adverse: Relations increase for every promise you keep (modifer higher for promises kept to Scythia). Relations decrease drastically whenever you backstab someone else (modifer higher if you backstab Scythia). Relations modifiers for Declared Friend and You Denounced Them increase by 25%. Leaders with this agenda will never backstab other players.

    Big Stick Policy: Relations improve for every turn one of your units spends on America's Home Continent while at peace or in a defensive war (bonus scales with amount of units). Relations for every city you have on America's home continent while at peace. Relations decrease when you're in an offensive, while having a unit or city on America's Home Continent. They also decrease faster if you're at war with a Civ or CS on America's Home Continent. Leaders with this agenda are more likely to protect City States and join defensive wars on their home continent.

    Billionaire: Relations increase drastically for every trade your send to the Netherlands and mildly for every trade route they send to you. Relations decrease when you're able to send a trade route and don't (bonus scales with the amount of trader slots currently open to you). Gifts increase relations by 25% Leaders with this agenda cn be bribed more easily with gold.

    Black Queen: Relations increase for every level of diplomatic visibility you have with other AIs (double for every level you have with France) and every spy that is currently on a mission. Relations decrease for every level of diplomatic visiblity France has with other AIS (players not included), and ever spy they currently own Espionage affects relations 50% less. Leaders with this agenda prioritize Diplomacy and Espionage

    Bushido: Relations improve if you have above average culture and faith, as well as an above average army (scales with according to how much you outperform the average). Relations decrease if you are below the average for culture and faith, but above the average in terms of military. Leaders with this personality don't declare Surprise Wars on opponents with weaker militaries.

    Cheomseongdae: Relations improve for every technology you've discovered and decrease for every Technology Korea has discovered. Your science per turn also increases or decreases relations according to where you score on the global average. Leaders with this agenda prioritize science and counterintelligence.

    City Planner: relations increase for every district you own and decrease for every district Nubia own. Relations also increase for every district type you own. Leaders with this agenda build prioritize infrastructure.

    Counter Reformer: Relations increase if all of your cities have the same religion and every time you use an Inquisitor to remove heresy from your cities. Relations decrease if you try to convert Spain's cities to a different religion or if you use an Inquisitor to remove Spain's religion from a city. Religion's impact on relations is doubled. Leaders with this personality will recruit Inquisitors more often.

    Delean League: Relations improve for every city state you've met that you aren't the suzerain of. Relations decrease for every envoy you've sent to a city state Greece has also sent at least 3 envoys to. Suffer a temporary penality to relations when you supplant Greece as a Suzerain. Leaders with this personality align with CSs more aggressively.

    Entheusiastic Disciple: Relations improve by a fixed amount once you've founded a religion and decrease for every passing turn without sending a religious unit to Kongo's lands or converting a Kongolese city (these penalties stack). Relations also improve for every Kongolese city following your founded religion. Religious differences don't impact relations at all. Leaders with this agenda are more eager to sign Open Borders agreements.

    Flower of Scotland: Relations improve for every turn spent at peace with your neighbours (including Scotland). The decrease for every turn spent at war with a neighbouring Civ (and they decrease drastically if you're the aggressor). Promises impact relations 50% more. Leaders with this personality don't backstab or invade neighbours unless backstabbed first.

    Horns, Chest, Loins: relations improve for every Corps, Army, Fleet and Armada you own. (Armies and Armadas are worth more). relations decrease for every military unit you own that aren't in a corps, army, fleet or armada, after unlocking them. Warmongering penalities are halved. Leaders with this agenda prioritize infantry units (Melee or Counter Cavalry).

    Horse Lord: Relations improve for every source of Horses and each Cavalry unit owned by Mongolia. They decrease for every source of Horses and Cavalry unit owned by your empire. Leaders with this personality are more likely to build Cavalry and Stables and are more to send traders to Civs with which they have poor relations.

    Iron Confederacy: Relations improve for every alliance and alliance level you have with other AIs (including Cree). They decrease for every alliance or alliance level the Cree have reached with other AIs. Leaders with this agenda will always accept an alliance, provided they have an open slot.

    Iron Crown: Relations increase for every city state you've met but aren't the Suzerain of. They also increase for every unspent envoy. They decrease for every City state you are the Suzerain of or are at war with (penalties are greater if in an offensive war). Leaders with this personality don't spend their envoys and are more likely to attack City States under the control of other leaders.

    Last Viking King: Relations increase for every naval unit or Great Admiral you own. They also increase for every coastal city owned by you that has build fortifications. They decrease for every naval unit owned by Norway and for every coastal city without fortifications. Leaders with this personality pillage more often and they also prioritize settling near the coast.

    Maurya Empire: Relations increase and decrease according to how distant the borders between your empires are. The more distant, the better the relations are, the closer, the worse they are. Leaders with this agenda prioritize border expansion and do not settle or expand towards locations far from their borders.

    Narikala Fortress: Relations increase for every level of fortifications you've built and decrease for every level of fortifcation you have unlocked but not yet built in a city. Relations also increase or decrease according to how well your cities' average strength compares to the Georgian. Leaders with this agenda propritize defence and will run the Limes Policy whenever possible.

    Opportunist: Relations increase with each broken promise and surprise war declared and decrease for each honored promise. Bonuses and penalties are larger if the target is an enemy of Persia. No relations penalties from backstabbing other civs (other than Persia). Leaders with this agenda declare Surprise Wars against weaker opponents more often.

    Optimus Princeps: relations increase for each hex and every city under your control (Cities are worth more). Relations decrease for every hex or city currently owned by Rome. Relations penality from forward settling Rome is halved. Leaders with this personality build settlers more often and are more likely to Forward-Settle opponents.

    Patron of the Arts: Increased relations for each GP Brazil has earned and every district project they've completed., decreased relations for each GP you earned (penalties increase of Brazil was close to earning that GP as well) or every district project you've completed. Leaders with this personality run city projects more often.

    Peacekeeper: Increased relations for every turn spent at peace, bonus scales according to the amount of civs you and India have both met. Decreased relations from being in an offensive with a civ both you and India have met (more if you're at war with India itself). All Warmonger relation penalties and are quadrupled. Leaders with this agenda only go to war against warmongers.

    Perpetually on Guard: Increased relations for every turn spent at peace or every turn spent in a defensive war (the latter being worth more). Decreased relations for each conquered and occupied city (occupied cities being worth more).All liberation relation bonuses are quadrupled, all warmonger relations penalities are doubled. Leaders with this agenda join defensive wars more easily and are likelier to liberate cities.

    Queen of the Nile: Increased relations for every military unit you own. Decreased relations for every military unit Egypt owns. Relations also increase or decrease according to how strong your military is compared to the global average. Leaders with this agenda align and accept demands from stronger civs more easily and will prioritize Trade with them.

    Saint: Relations rise or fall according to where your Faith/turn falls within the global average, and according to where it compares to Poland's faith/turn. Relations also increase for having a pantheon and majority. Leaders with this agenda prioritize religion and expansion.

    Short life of Glory: Relations increase for every turn spent at war and for every city you've captured, razed or occupied. Relations decrease for every turn spent at peace once your latest peace treaty has expired (scales with the amount of civs both you and Macedon have met). Relations modifiers from Warmongering and Liberation are quartered. Leaders with this personality will try to stay at war with at least one Civ whenever possible. They will also prioritize Encampments.

    Spirit of Tucapel: Relations increase for every city you have at full loyalty and decrease for every city that isn't at full loyality. Relations also increase if your loyalty average is higher than Mapuche's and decrease if their loyalty average is higher than yours. Leaders with this personality recruit as many governors as possible.

    Sun Never Sets: Relations increase for every city you've settled on a continent on which England also has a city. Relations decrease for every city you've settled on a continent on which England does NOT have a city. No relations penalties from settling near England. Leaders with this agenda prioritize Expansion.

    Tlatoani: Increase relations for every luxury the Aztecs own (additional relations bonus if you also have that Luxury). Decreased relations for every Luxury you own but the Aztec do not. Leaders with this personality can be bribed more easily with luxuries.

    Wall of 1000 Li: Relations increase for every wonder build by China and decrease for every wonder you've built. Leaders with this agenda also recruit builders more often. They also prioritize Wonders and Industry.

    Westernizer: Relations increase for every Technology and Civic you've discovered and Russia have not. Relations also increase if your average Culture+Science/turn is higher than Russia's. Relations decrease for every Tech and Civic discovered by Russia that you haven't and/or your average Science+Culture/turn is lower than Russias. Leaders with this personality agenda trade with smarter and/or more refined opponents.

    With Your Shield Or On It: Liberation and Warmonger bonuses and penalties are reversed and doubled (ie: you gain a boost from Warmongering and a penality from liberating). Relations increase for each foreign city you capture or raze and for every military unit you kill. Relations decrease for every unit or city you lose in a war. Gain a temporary boost if you win a war and a temporary penality when you lose or draw a war. Leaders with this agenda never accept losing peace treaties and build up their military.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  5. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,220
    I think the two Agenda system is fine. But yeah, it could use some work.

    Here’s what I’d do:

    - Give each leader an Agenda (like hey already do) and a personality type. The Agenda would work as it does now. The personality type would define their likely reactions to certain diplomatic events (eg how upset they get about war), preferred government, and or preferred strategy (unless their preferred strategy is trumped by their secret agenda). There would be a limited number of personality types - aggressive, autocratic, liberal, pious and mercantile. That should hopefully get AI to act a little more consistently. I think the game already has personality types, but my idea is to make that more explicit and defined.

    - Each AI would still have a secret agenda. This would work like the current system, including some like Ghandi having a greater likelihood to have certain secret Agendas, and secret agendas revealed through diplomatic access. Again, the AI should hopefully act more consistently given the AIs secret agenda is now just one of three factors controlling their behaviour along with their main agenda and personality type.

    - I’d give the AI some bonuses based on their personality type and or agendas. Just so the AI can more effectively lean into certain strategies.

    - I’d make diplomatic visibility something you can trade with other Civs. What I mean is, say you’re playing Frederick, and happily trade with Teddy. Well, if Teddy has enough diplomatic access to Tamar, he could trade that to you, giving you another level of access. That should hopefully allow players to see others hidden agendas faster, and so understand what’s going on. It would also add another strategic level - if your fighting Tamar, you could use her friendship with Teddy to get you improved diplomatic visibility and therefore a slight combat bonus

    - The other change I’d make is this: improve diplomatic visualisation. First, I should be able to click on another Civ’s city, and see graphically who likes that and who doesn’t as a filter - eg selected Civ’s cities are grey, Cities of Civs that don’t like them are various shades of red, and cities of those that do like them are green, with maybe other colours for alliances. The filter could maybe also show just that empires trade routes.
     

Share This Page