An in-depth proposition on how to fix Protective: (Please read and comment!)

[isau]

I came up against the "How to fix Protective" question when building the mod I'm currently working on, and approached it this way:

Protective (as programmed for the Saints and Sinners mod)
No longer grants unit promotions. Instead, Protective leaders who fortify their units continue to gain defenses 3 turns longer than other leaders. This works with any unit that can fortify, and can afford up to a +15% defense beyond what other leaders can achieve. In addition, Protective leaders build Walls, Castles, Bunkers, and Bomb Shelters at half price. Castles now obselete with Steel instead of Economics, extending their usefulness. Bunkers now provide +5% healing.

Testing hasn't yet revealed whether the trait is better now.

Isau

 

[jpinard]

I'd like to apologize to all of you if you think I've hoarded over this thread too much lately. The Castles, Knights, and Forts really kickstarted something in me and I truly hope to get that part of the game rebalanced ASAP so I can start having fun again. Now what I wanted to do vs. what I actually can do is an issue. As such I had to change some of my plans and here's the end result:

* Walls give +5% Espionage Defence. I believe this is equivalent to having 1 spy stationed in the city.

* Castles (and Spanish Citadels) can be built earlier at Construction (but also require Feudalism). Their obscelesence has been delayed to Corporation.

* Castles cost (& advanced cost) is doubled to 200. Spanish Citadel cost (& advanced cost) is almost doubled at 195.

* Castles give +1 exp to Siege and Mounted units constructed in them. Spanish Citadels also offer +1 exp to mounted units.

* Wall needed in city before building Great Wall.

* Serfdom War Weariness -25%.

* Reduced cost of Feudalism -100 (to 600).

* Reduced cost of Guilds -100 (to 900)

* Increased cost of Nationalism, Banking, Education, Printing Press, Gunpowder +400 (to 2200, 1100, 2200, 2000, 1600 respectively).

* Increased cost of Fort 2X (to 120). (build time doubled from 1000 to 2000).

* Fort defense +10% (to 35%)


Serfdom has a bit more value, but I couldn't tie it to Castles. Is the War Weariness modifier enough, or should Serfdom get +1 conscription as well?

Is +1 exp for Mounted Units and Siege Weapons enough?

Castles and Forts are much more valuable and more important. The idea behind Castles training Mounted units at +1 is to simulate Knights begin created there (I might make it +2). With castles requiring the later tech Feudalism, I made Feudalism a bit cheaper. To increase the longevity and value of Knights, Guilds are a bit cheaper, and the follow-up techs are more expensive. None of the changes are too drastic & shouldn't hurt current balance that much. They just increase the value of fortified regions and make the late Medieval age more realistic & fun (I hope).

 

[isau]

Don't forget a number of half cost buildings you could feasibly assign to Protective:

• SDI
• Bunkers
• Fallout Shelters
• Hospitals

Having something to build after the half cost building goes obsolete would help a lot. I don't think any other trait has buildings that obsolete, so it's fair IMO to give Protective some half-cost late buildings.

Isau

 

[slaze]

Castles, obsolete at Gunpowder

 

[Minor Annoyance]

Don't forget a number of half cost buildings you could feasibly assign to Protective:

• SDI
• Bunkers
• Fallout Shelters
• Hospitals

Having something to build after the half cost building goes obsolete would help a lot. I don't think any other trait has buildings that obsolete, so it's fair IMO to give Protective some half-cost late buildings.

Isau

Just yesterday I thought "Why hasn't anyone suggested SDI, bunkers, and bomb shelters for Protective" but I guess someone has. It's so obvious I'm surprised it wasn't in the game already.

 

[Cookie Crumbs]

Half-price SDI/Bomb Shelters is just another nail in the coffin for ICBMs that they don't need. To improve Protective I did:
Castles obsolete at Corporation (makes sense since you gain +1 trade route)
Half-price Security Bureau/Jail