An issue about military leader rushing

[Grille]

In C3C, leader rushing rules have been changed.
A military leader cannot rush a Great Wonder anymore.
Apparently, they could only rush Small Wonders. They cannot rush other improvements or units (that's in v1.00, haven't checked in v1.12 or higher), at least there's no rush button when the city builds improvement/GW (just to count out other rule interference: rushing from scratch - so no forest shields or similar have gone into the production box before).
Rushing SW is possible, switching to GW after SW-rush not. Strangely, you can switch to improvement from a rushed SW...


So either the missing button for improvement (unit) rush is a flaw or switching from rushed SW to improvement is a bug. At least it's a bit weird that you could 'rush' improvements as long as you have the option to order a Small Wonder. Note that I did not notice that in a regular game in the first place (made armies out of MGL ASAP), but in a test scenario with a bunch of free MGL at game start (but using default rules!).

So... how *should* MGL-rushing work then?

PS:
Maybe someone has checked MGL rushing in v1.12 or higher?
PPS:
Btw, why have unfilled army units only 2/3 movement points?

 

[socralynnek]

MGL can rush normal improvements too. At least I saw the button for it in my cities.

If it is possible to switch from a rushed Small Wonder to a Great Wonder then it's a bug, otherwise I don't see any problem if you can switch.

 

[Grille]

Originally posted by socralynnek
MGL can rush normal improvements too. At least I saw the button for it in my cities.

Yeah, from the top of my hat, I also *thought* the rush button (vague reflections of my very first 'plain & simple' epic game of C3C) would only miss if:
-city produces unit
-city produces GW
-city had forest or rushed shields in production box and switched prod

But in late November, I had made a test scenario to test the RCP/FP issue and gave me a bunch of (M)GL at game start.
In 'plain' epic games, I think I always made an army out of a MGL and did not pay attention to the rush button at all.
I recently revisited that scenario for different testing puposes and noticed the stuff I posted above. I wanted to rush an airport from scratch which was impossible... so I rushed Intel Agency and then switched to the Airport as work-around method.

Anyways, then it must be something with the .biq (respectively editor), although the biq uses default rules (except implementations for some 'extras' at game start).

When chosing extra starting units in the editor (->scenario properties), I could only pick a 'Leader' w/o the attribute 'military' *IIRC*. Now I guess that could be the root of the mess, i.e. missing rush button for improvement as build project (?).

If it is possible to switch from a rushed Small Wonder to a Great Wonder then it's a bug, otherwise I don't see any problem if you can switch.

No, that wasn't possible; agree with the rest.

 

[Juhahu]

Can they hurry nukes? 500 shield would be very good for great leader

 

[sealman]

I think MGL should be able to rush Militaristic Great Wonders but not others and likewise, SGL should be ablet o rush Scientific Great Wonders but no others.

edit: in regards to the wonders that do not fit into either scientific and militaristic, no rushing.

 

[tomart109]

I think MGLs should be able to rush Military Great Wonders, like Sun Tzu and Leonardo's. This change (that only SGLs can) is too extreme for my taste, perhaps because I don't seem to get SGLs... But also I resent we warmongers being discriminated against. The Army improvements are good, (perhaps overdue) but personally I miss the old way.
Just my .02

 

[sincewednesday]

I'm pretty sure I used a MGL to rush the Military Academy (C3C 1.13), so they've obviously allowed at least some military GW to be built. But it's probably a rare situation that rushing the MA is an advantage... in this game, I didn't have a fast unit that would benefit (as much) from an Army, and I wanted to free up my MA city for Bank or Stock Exchange or something of the sort.

 

[Zingo]

Originally posted by sincewednesday
I'm pretty sure I used a MGL to rush the Military Academy (C3C 1.13), so they've obviously allowed at least some military GW to be built. But it's probably a rare situation that rushing the MA is an advantage... in this game, I didn't have a fast unit that would benefit (as much) from an Army, and I wanted to free up my MA city for Bank or Stock Exchange or something of the sort.

MA is a small wonder.

 

[Black Waltz]

I like the system as it is now. But I do agree that they should be able to rush pretty much everything up to SW's.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Can MGL rush Palaces too?

 

[akillias]

I think theres an exploit where you can do that for free

 

[HellboundHeathcliff]

Originally posted by CIVPhilzilla
Can MGL rush Palaces too?

Yes, palaces behave like small wonders.

 

[Grille]

Ok, I took a couple of shots.
My best guess is still that the editor causes the problems. An editor-chosen (M)GL doesn't stick to the rules, just look at the (sometimes missing) command buttons in the pics below.

MGL can't rush an improvement (rush button missing):


MGL can rush a GW (rush button available...):


MGL can't rush Palace:




Regarding great leaders, it seems like the C3C game engine is somewhat 'incompatible' to .biq files made in the C3C editor... (game knows 2 kinds of GL, editor just 1). Not the biggest deal, unless you create a scenario with leaders at game start.