ancient ageless buildings locking out tiles

[Coozer]

Thoughts on the value of Antient ageless buildings locking out tiles in cities with limited tiles?

I know it would be a big nerf to not build granaries and brickworks in the first era but...in cities with limited tiles it seems like im locking in a bad building when space is already tight. Late game my city will have almost no farms or mines, all districts, especially if i build wonders.

Im unsure, does anyone else ever not build early ageless buildings?

 

[Big J Money]

I definitely do not always build them. But in my case it was more ancient towns that were turned into cities in the exploration age. You still have the option to build the old ageless buildings, and for the most part I chose not to because the yields weren't great. However, I think that previous age builiding yields might not be calculated correctly on the build screen... (they don't take adjacency into account, as if they were not ageless).

 

[Leyrann]

I still instantly plonk down a Granary in a new town in the Modern Era.

All Warehouse buildings give bonuses to tiles, and thus scale with (rural) size.

I suspect you're building your settlements too close together, if you're running out of space. It's true that lategame cities don't have a lot of rural tiles anymore though, but they don't need to, as their food is provided by towns and their other resources by buildings.

 

[evonannoredars]

'Ageless' as a term should be split out into several concepts imo. Rn it seems to mean 'can be built in any age' in some cases, 'effects stay active in all ages' in others and sometimes 'cannot be overbuilt'.
It sorta makes sense for warehouse buildings to be unoverbuildable to avoid accidentally overbuilding them and losing a bunch of food or production, but them being permanent fixtures that can take up a load of slots is unideal to me atm.

 

[Krikkit1]

'Ageless' as a term should be split out into several concepts imo. Rn it seems to mean 'can be built in any age' in some cases, 'effects stay active in all ages' in others and sometimes 'cannot be overbuilt'.
It sorta makes sense for warehouse buildings to be unoverbuildable to avoid accidentally overbuilding them and losing a bunch of food or production, but them being permanent fixtures that can take up a load of slots is unideal to me atm.

Well right now there are basically 3 "Ageless" categories

1. Wonders, Unique buildings... can't be overbuilt, maintain full bonuses, but can't be built outside of age
2. Unique Improvements...Can be overbuilt by buildings (and don't count as being overbuilt), maintain full bonuses, but can't be built outside of age
3. Warehouses...can't be overbuilt, maintain full bonuses, but can't be built outside of age

Having some ability to overbuild Warehouses would be useful... but finding a way to do it without accidentally dropping a lot of yield would be good.

 

[chazzycat]

I sometimes skip them for small island fishing towns, just due to the scarcity of available building slots in that situation. But in general I don't see it as a major concern. If you have more than one or two of a given improvement in any settlement, it should probably have the accompanying warehouse building.

 

[Giskler]

I can't play without the Aging Warehouses mod now, it's much more elegant having the bonuses transferred to the city hall upon entering a new age.

 

[Fluffball]

The only 'issue' with ageless buildings is you have to think about where you put them which really is no different to none ageless buildings.

Much like you wouldn't put a building with no adjacency bonuses as it is a waste, don't put ageless buildings on tiles with nice adjacency bonuses.

Some of my early games I found i placed them badly and they blocked good rules but now I plan cities pretty much as soon as I place them which makes it much less of a problem, sometimes you have to place suboptimal due to the situation though.

I have been thinking of trying the aging warehouses mostly as captured AI towns often have poor ageless building placement.

As a compromise it would be nice to be able move warehouse buildings which the mod kind of does but it is a lot to replace all of them each era.

 

[Methos]

This is part of the fun for me. As in I plan out my city building placement so that my ageless buildings aren't an issue later in the game. I also only build the ones that matter.

 

[chazzycat]

I can't play without the Aging Warehouses mod now, it's much more elegant having the bonuses transferred to the city hall upon entering a new age.

Easier, yes. More elegant? I don't believe that. You are removing the downside of a decision, such that there is no decision to be made at all.

 

[marius_kaparius]

I remember this vexing me in my first playthrough but it doesn't bother me now that I understand adjacency bonuses better. I place these in the first ring on a tile that doesn't get adjacencies typically and make sure I complete the district to transfer a bonus back to the town/city center.

 

[Giskler]

Easier, yes. More elegant? I don't believe that. You are removing the downside of a decision, such that there is no decision to be made at all.

I hate having a bunch of buildings blocking city development in conquered settlements because the AI can't plan building placement to save its life. The mod fixes that. Now all I need is a mod that makes the AI place unique districts properly (i.e., both buildings together).

 

[King Flevance]

I hate having a bunch of buildings blocking city development in conquered settlements because the AI can't plan building placement to save its life. The mod fixes that. Now all I need is a mod that makes the AI place unique districts properly (i.e., both buildings together).

This is the biggest reason I think destroying ageless buildings should be allowed. I have seen the AI build a brickyard and stone cutter for 1 mine & 0 claypits.

Aside from other arguments, the AI is not smart about placing ageless buildings and needs to be programmed to understand. But if not, then let a conqueror destroy all ageless buildings without razing the city. I like the logistical problem of the granary taking up space all game. But being locked into its placement when it MUST be one of the first things you build (Connected to the City Center) with no option to push it out further towards the farms is pretty harsh. Having to sacrifice turns to build a granary for the 2nd time is a fair punishment enough. Let it be obsolete and able to overbuild in later ages. But I would allow us the option to pick the which building we want to overbuild instead of the game picking for us. (The game does a good job selecting what to overbuild generally, but in this case you want to give control to the player.)

 

[Tanel]

I hate having a bunch of buildings blocking city development in conquered settlements because the AI can't plan building placement to save its life. The mod fixes that. Now all I need is a mod that makes the AI place unique districts properly (i.e., both buildings together).

Yeah I have no problem anymore with placing them in my own settlements now that I know how to plan my cities better but conquered AI cities are really atrocious because of that.

 

[AriochIV]

I still instantly plonk down a Granary in a new town in the Modern Era.

All Warehouse buildings give bonuses to tiles, and thus scale with (rural) size.

I suspect you're building your settlements too close together, if you're running out of space. It's true that lategame cities don't have a lot of rural tiles anymore though, but they don't need to, as their food is provided by towns and their other resources by buildings.

Unless the UI is completely wrong, Granaries and other "ageless" buildings from previous Ages don't actually give any warehouse bonuses. So that Granary is only giving you +1 Food in the Modern Age.

I don't know whether this is a bug in the display, a bug in the function, or intended. If Ageless buildings can't be removed, then they should continue to give their warehouse bonuses in later Ages. But as far as I can tell, they don't.

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

Unless the UI is completely wrong, Granaries and other "ageless" buildings from previous Ages don't actually give any warehouse bonuses. So that Granary is only giving you +1 Food in the Modern Age.

I don't know whether this is a bug in the display, a bug in the function, or intended. If Ageless buildings can't be removed, then they should continue to give their warehouse bonuses in later Ages. But as far as I can tell, they don't.

Warehouse building have a small production themselves (granary is 1 food). The actual bonus is that all other corresponding tiles produce 1 more. So a warehouse building without the corresponding tiles (either because you built there, or never claimed them) is less than worthless, since it takes a place and you can't remove it...

This is why I hardly build warehouse building in settlements with city potential (lots of adjaceny possibility, certain type of tiles I feel would be usefull for wonders,...)... Even at antiquity start, I prefer to build swormen than a grannary...
The only one I build is the fishing quay (few buildings in water anyway), or the modern ones (the ageless feature do not mean anything then^^). I prefer to leave the warehouse building for farming towns and mining towns (and even then I need a good output to be sure to have sufficient return on investment...).

 

[Leyrann]

Unless the UI is completely wrong, Granaries and other "ageless" buildings from previous Ages don't actually give any warehouse bonuses. So that Granary is only giving you +1 Food in the Modern Age.

I don't know whether this is a bug in the display, a bug in the function, or intended. If Ageless buildings can't be removed, then they should continue to give their warehouse bonuses in later Ages. But as far as I can tell, they don't.

Pretty sure my Granaries still give +1 food to farms and such in later eras, at least if the UI is to be believed, however I can't prove it because Civ VII has decided to crash on me. Whether I load my most recent save, an earlier save that I know I loaded successfully before, or even start a new game.

Still troubleshooting wth is going on here.

 

[Leyrann]

Pretty sure my Granaries still give +1 food to farms and such in later eras, at least if the UI is to be believed, however I can't prove it because Civ VII has decided to crash on me. Whether I load my most recent save, an earlier save that I know I loaded successfully before, or even start a new game.

Still troubleshooting wth is going on here.

Alright, game is working again after a PC restart, and... it does seem you were right after all?

I am very confused why I never noticed this before. Unless somehow the functionality is different with an Exploration Era start versus a full playthrough...

 

[AriochIV]

Warehouse building have a small production themselves (granary is 1 food). The actual bonus is that all other corresponding tiles produce 1 more.

The problem is that they don't -- as Leyrann also mentioned, the warehouse bonus on Granaries disappears after the Antiquity Age, at least if the UI is to be believed.

Here is Pengcheng in the Antiquity Age. The Granary will get +2 warehouse Food from the two Pastures.

Here is Pengcheng in the Exploration Age. The Granary gives no warehouse bonus even though there is a Pasture and a Farm.

 

[Siptah]

The problem is that they don't -- as Leyrann also mentioned, the warehouse bonus on Granaries disappears after the Antiquity Age, at least if the UI is to be believed.

Here is Pengcheng in the Antiquity Age. The Granary will get +2 warehouse Food from the two Pastures.
[snip]

Thanks for the evidence!
I could have sworn that Granaries showed higher yields when I buy them in the later eras in newly founded towns.