Ancient and Classical buildings Elimination Thread

[kryat]

This thread is moderator approved.

In keeping with the theme of exploring what's good and what's not throughout the game, I would like to present the building infrastructure elimination thread. To avoid the list being unnecessarily long, this will focus only on the early game, and pairing nicely with the previous two policy threads, this will look at buildings coming from the ancient and classical eras only. No unique buildings are considered, and religious buildings beyond the temple are excluded.

While not completely necessary, it could be interesting to alternate this series with the policy series, as era appropriate.

In this post, you will find more information on the elimination thread, so if you are looking for the building list, do proceed to the next post.

While you may vote for whatever you wish on whatever grounds you wish, I would recommend the following considerations:

• How quickly do you prioritize this building?
• How useful is the building in your long-term strategy?
  
• How useful is the building in your short-term survival?
  
• How many cities do you build it in?
• How easily is this building unlocked?
• What’s the cost to build versus the benefit?

The rules are as usual:

• Each post should contain one downvote (-3 points) and one upvote (+1 point).
• Votes must have a corresponding explanation.
• You may vote once every 24 hours.
• When a building reaches 0 or fewer points it is eliminated and should be removed by the next poster.
  
• No particular victory type or civilization is assumed, or difficulty level.
  
• Game and map settings are left at default, NFP games modes are disabled.
• Continous up/downvoting of a given policy by the same user should be avoided.
• Please do not add non-voting posts to the thread as they are subject to removal.

A quick list of recent elimination threads can be found below:

NFP Elimination Threads
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/classical-era-policy-elimination-thread.668068
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ancient-era-policy-elimination-thread.667807/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...mination-victories-elimination-thread.664641/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sneak-peek-at-composite-victory-type-rankings-so-far.661225/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cultural-victory-elimination-thread-no-ss.661203/page-16
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-states-elimination-thread.660516/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/religious-victory-elimination-thread.659828/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/

Previous Gathering Storm Elimination Threads
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/

Before GS Elimination Threads
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/

 

[kryat]

Here's the alphabetical list of the buildings unlocked in the Ancient or Classical Eras:

• Ampitheater (150p): +2 culture, +1 specialist slot, +1 GWriterPt/t, +2 Great Work of Writing Slots
• Ancestral Hall (150p): +50% production to settlers, new cities receive free builder, +1 Governor Title
• Ancient Walls (80p): Provides outer defense and city combat, +100 outer defense, +3 CS, +1 housing with monarchy government, +1 tourism with conservation
• Arena (150p): +2 amenities, +1 culture, +1 tourism with conservation
• Audience Chamber (150p): +2 amenities and +4 housing in cities with governors, -2 loyalty in cities without governors, +1 Governor Title
• Barracks (90p): +1 production, +1 housing, +1 specialist slot, +1 GGeneralPtpt, +25% XP for all melee, ranged, and anti-cav units trained in the city, increase resource stockpile by 10
• Consulate (150p): +2 influence/turn, spies operate 1 level lower when targeting this city or cities with encampments. Bonus yields based on envoy count in city states.
• Granary (65p): +1 food, +2 housing
• Grove (150p): +1 food and faith to adjacent, unimproved tiles with charming or +2 food, faith and culture for adjacent, unimproved tiles with breathtaking appeal
• Lighthouse (120p): +1 food, +1 food in coast and lake tiles in the city, +1 gold, +1 housing, +2 housing if city center is adjacent to coast or lake, +1 specialist slot, +1 GAdmiralPt/t, +25% XP for naval units trained in the city, +1 trade route if the city doesn’t have a market
• Library (90p): +2 science, +1 specialist slot, +1 GScientistPt/t
• Market (120p): +3 gold, +1 specialist slot, +1 GMerchantPt/t, +1 trade route if the city doesn’t have a lighthouse
• Monument (60p): +1 loyalty, +1 culture, +1 culture if the city is at max loyalty
• Shrine (70p): +2 faith, +1 specialist slot, +1 GProphetPt/t, allows purchasing missionaries
• Stable (120p): +1 production, +1 housing, +1 specialist slot, +1 GGeneralPtpt, +25% XP for all cavalry (and siege?) units trained in the city, increase resource stockpile by 10
• Temple (120p): +4 faith, +1 specialist slot, +1 GProphetPt/t, +1 relic slot, allows purchasing apostles, gurus, and inquisitors in the city
• Warlord’s Throne (150p): Capturing an enemy city grants 20% bonus production in all cities for 5 turns, +1 Government Title
• Water Mill (80p): +1 food, +1 production, +1 food from bonus resources improved by farms in the city, city must be built adjacent to river

The voting template for the kind consideration of the first voter:

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (20)
Ancient Walls (20)
Arena (20)
Audience Chamber (20)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (20)
Lighthouse (20)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (20)
Water Mill (20)


And finally, the leaderboard
Top tier buildings, build them when you can
1. Monument - (WINNER) I honestly did not expect the humble monument to do so well. But for a game about tile control, nothing does it better so early. Helps get to early governments, helps secure cities, helps border growth. A well-deserved top finisher.
2. Ancestral Hall - (#194) A very powerful building giving you great returns for going wide, as long as you build it early enough.
3. Lighthouse - (#192) A broadly useful building only hampered by building location limitations.

Essential buildings, build in every game
4. Market - (#155) Great for GM points, and essential for landlocked empires
5. Temple - (#151) A better source of faith than the shrine.
6. Library - (#148) Science pushes you through the game. It's important to build, but maybe not first.
7. Granary - (#142) It's cheap and great for times you don't have water. But unnecessary if you have water.

Generic buildings, you'll probably build some of these in most cities
8. Shrine - (#131) It's cheap and necessary for spreading religion. It's a shame the temple is better in almost every way.
9. Ancient Walls - (#122) May be necessary in some instances, but not in all
10. Warlord's Throne - (#101) Great if you warmonger, less so if you don't
11. Amphitheater - (#84) A more expensive source of culture than the monument for about the same amount of culture, but earns its place later in the game.
12. Barracks - (#75) Modest production and great GG points, but not as useful in mass numbers

Buildings you probably don't need, but they can add a little to your game... sometimes
13. Water Mill - (#62) Can be useful in the right context, but generally seen as having too little yields for the effort.
14. Grove - (#58) A great ROI in a small number of places on the map. Agreement that it there needs to be a very compelling reason to build it before other districts.
15. Stable - (#56) Seen as a low-priority building in most cases. The barracks has more universal support.

Buildings you can get by without ever building
16. Audience Chamber - (#49) Conflicting consensus on whether or not it is a good government building. Some see it as a useful tool for tall play, others say the the others buildings are objectively better. Probably the most controversial consensus on this list.
17. Consulate - (#40) Might be a good building to get around to eventually, but not worth it early.
18. Arena - (#27) Broadly seen as a necessary evil to get to zoos or the Coliseum. Expensive to build ED and arena.

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

This is hard...

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (20)
Ancient Walls (21) (20+1)
Arena (17) (20-3)
Audience Chamber (20)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (20)
Lighthouse (20)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (20)
Water Mill (20)

Arena: This just seems like the most useless out of all of the choices.

Ancient Walls: Always build these whenever you have aggressive A.I. as your next-door neighbor.

 

[kryat]

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (20)
Ancient Walls (21)
Arena (17)
Audience Chamber (20)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (20)
Lighthouse (21) (20+1)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (17) (20-3)
Water Mill (20)

Lighthouse - I have always felt this is one of the best ROIs in the game. Great source of food, housing, and gold, and all of them are things you want early.

Warlords’s Throne - This is a never build for me. To get much out of it, you have to be constantly conquering. It’s useful in some games, but not in most of mine.

 

[Vargas1]

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (20)
Ancient Walls (21)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (20)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (20)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (17)
Water Mill (20)

Lighthouse (22) - Good early yields, and a trade route is always valuable. The added housing let's you have viable coastal cities away from fresh water or mountains.

Arena (14) - Has its uses later in the game, but other than to pair with the Colosseum it's something I rarely (read: never) build early.

 

[enKage]

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (20)
Ancient Walls (21)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (20)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (18)
Water Mill (20)

Warlord's Throne +1
+20% hammers everywhere? Yes , please. Downvote so early? Peaceful game -> AH, domi game -> WT, pretty a must

Grove -3
1) you need a district that has no great people generation = waste of slot early
2) extremely expensive
It has uses later, but before t100 very very limited use,
Huge production invested and a district slot to get sth like 4food 8 faith? A joke

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (21)
Ancient Walls (21)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (17)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (18)
Water Mill (20)

Ancestral Hall 21 (20+1): There are lots and lots of things vying for your attention to be built in the ancient and classical era, but perhaps nothing is more important than getting as many cities up and running as soon you can. This not only speeds up the production of those crucial early settlers, but gives you a free builder to help get that city going, and it remains useful into the medieval era and beyond as you explore the map, or settle in remote locations for oil and aluminium in the late game. Ancestral Hall + Hic Sunt Dracones + Serfdom + Pyramids is probably my favourite synergy in the game. The only time you don't build the AH is when you're warmongering and you build Warlord's Throne instead.

Audience Chamber 17 (20-3): In all the years I've been playing Civ 6 I don't think I've built this once. I could maybe see you building it as Kongo or Lady Six Sky, but that's about it. Housing and Amenities just aren't an issue for player in the Ancient and Classical era, and by the time they are, there's lots of other ways to get them.

 

[OzzyKP]

Sorry to completely copy the last post, but I agree with everything Mount Suribachi said.

Ampitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (21)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (14)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (18)
Water Mill (20)

Ancestral Hall 22 (21+1): While Walls, & Lighthouse are other key buildings I prioritize, Ancestral Hall is basically the whole reason I build a government district. More cities and more developed cities is crucial.

Audience Chamber 14 (17-3): I never build this. I appreciate that they buffed it, but as folks have said ad nauseum, wide beats tall in Civ6.

 

[kaspergm]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (22)
Ancient Walls (22) (21+1) - I just love the comfort of safety.
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (14)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (18)
Water Mill (17) (20-3) - Meh, boring, there always seems to be something better to build.

 

[Hellenism Salesman]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23) (22+1) Is very good, and encourages the best playstyle. When you get Serfdom it becomes insane. Remains good constantly. Choose this.
Ancient Walls (22)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (14)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (18)
Water Mill (14) (17-3) It's not that I don't like you- I do. I like having stuff for my cities to amply build when there's nothing better to do. But I just wish you did something.

 

[canadamufc]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (11) (14-3) Far and away the worst T1 (maybe even all of them) government building. You don't need that much amenities and housing when you're trying to pump cities out. Also, this can discourage expansion with the loyalty debuff.
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (20)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19) (18+1) +20% production is very good. If you go for domination then this practically gives you +20% production to all your cities for the rest of the game. Even if you don't go for domination, conquering a civ can easily give you +20% production or more for 25~ish turns if you have good timings.
Water Mill (14)

 

[bengalryan9]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (22)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (12) (11+1) Not sure I really buy this having the lowest score already. I've had tons of games where I haven't had much land to expand to with no real desire to go to war. If I'm planning on a game with 5-6 cities, I'll choose the audience chamber. If I was forced to settle quickly to claim the lands I want, I'll most likely choose the audience chamber. If I'm playing Maya I'm definitely taking the audience chamber. Sure the ancestral hall is better the majority of times but that is contingent on how many cities I'm planning on settling after building it... and sometimes that number isn't high enough to justify it.
Barracks (20)
Consulate (20)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (17) (20-3) Even on the off chance that I do build encampment units early on I'm still not all that incentivized to build either of the buildings there... with my playstyle I just really don't get much use out of any of them. By the time I'm likely to actually build one of these I've probably already trained most of my troops and I'll just upgrade them for the rest of the game. I'll downvote stable over barracks just because it's a tad more expensive.
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (14)

 

[CoconutTank]

Ancient Walls (23) (22 + 1) Yarr, usually one of the first buildings I put up in new cities. Cities being able to protect themselves and not being immediately free against cavalry is a pretty good deal. The yield bonuses don't matter if one can't keep the city.

Consulate (17) (20 - 3) What does this building do again? I had to look it up, and while that's a nice effect I don't know if it's good enough to be worth building over the other choices. Even Audience Chamber will get me a governor title and a gov't legacy card at minimum.

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (20)
Consulate (17)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (17)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (14)

 

[Leucarum]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (14)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (17)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (17)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

Water Mill I don't think should be getting this early a downvote. There's better buildings but also a lot that are worse. A little food and production can help set a city up and it doesn't need any prerequisite districts. With a few farmable resources this can grow a new city pretty fast without much cost. The encampment buildings are probably the ones I build least hence the barracks getting my downvote. I'm sure I'll vote for the stable at some point though.

Edit: added in missing votes

 

[fy00sh]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (11)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (17)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (20)
Shrine (20)
Stable (18)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

Stable (18) (17+1) I think this one should go after Barracks. I don't build either either of them terribly often, but when I do I usually build more stables, especially because of the hidden bonus they have which makes their exp. bonus apply to siege units also. Very good for getting my catapults and bombards well promoted when I play a game where I actually use lots of military units (meaning, a domination victory game)
Arena (11) (14-3) Easy contender for first elimination imho, even more than grove. At least groves are situationally very useful - up to an extra 12 food culture and faith. On the other hand, I find that if I'm building an arena, it's because it's a necessary roadblock to building a zoo or the Colosseum. Not enough of a payoff for it to be worth building over something else most of the time.

 

[Buktu]

Amphitheater (20)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (11)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (14) (17-3)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (21) (20+1)
Shrine (20)
Stable (18)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

Monuments are super cheap and give much needed early culture to get more tiles in your cities and all those nice cards earlier. Basically I get these in every city early on.
The Consulate is bad early on. You need to find some CS + some envoys to get anything out of this. It's one of the most expensive buildings on the list as well. Also you need to sacrifice a district slot early on for the diploquarter which is better used for another district early on.

 

[Equilin]

Amphitheater (17) (20-3)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (11)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (14)
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (22) (21+1)
Shrine (20)
Stable (18)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

Good culture vs bad culture, amphitheater are twice as expensive and requires a district (thus district slot) for the same culture yield. GW culture is so far i cannot count on it unless specifically trying to get them.

 

[hhhhhh]

No elimination thread for medieval policies?

Amphitheater (17)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (11)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (11) (14 - 3) I don't think I need this till Medieval Era or later.
Granary (20)
Grove (17)
Lighthouse (22)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (23) (22+1) For many new settlement this should be one of the first things you build, seriously.
Shrine (20)
Stable (18)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

 

[Deadly Dog]

Amphitheater (17)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (11)
Audience Chamber (12)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (11)
Granary (20)
Grove (14) 17-3
Lighthouse (23) 22+1
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (23)
Shrine (20)
Stable (18)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

I think the grove should be first off the list. I love the new district but building this early will just hurt your game. Giving up a district slot = giving up a trade route or some important yields/GPP. And basically if you've got a good site for this you're going to want to follow up with a Sanctuary right away, so I save this for much later when I can buy it outright or have more tools for getting appeal to 4+ on all the tiles. The fact its a neutral culture bomb is just a trap for the player I think.

Gonna give the Lighthouse an early vote, for being a combo of the granary/marketplace. Food, housing, gold, AND a trade route and GA points. Would be a clear winner if the AI had a good naval game, as is it still should rank very high considering the low cost.

 

[TCBB]

Amphitheater (17)
Ancestral Hall (23)
Ancient Walls (23)
Arena (8) (11-3)
Audience Chamber (13) (12+1)
Barracks (17)
Consulate (11)
Granary (20)
Grove (14)
Lighthouse (23)
Library (20)
Market (20)
Monument (23)
Shrine (20)
Stable (18)
Temple (20)
Warlord’s Throne (19)
Water Mill (15)

Audience Chamber (13) (12+1) I don't think we should be eliminating any of the Government Plaza buildings just yet. As @bengalryan9 said, there will 100% be games where Audience Chamber is a valid option. I suspect that a lot of people on this sub play on large or huge maps, in which case Ancestral Hall seems to be the obvious pick. But for me, I almost always play on small or standard size maps; and the smaller the map, the stronger the case for Audience Chamber. Probably the weakest of the three G'mnt Plaza buildings, no doubt, but still a very strong building in its own right.

Arena (8) (11-3) Torn over what to downvote. If you consider the parameters @kryat set out, then the Grove or the Consulate are both prime candidates for early elimination. Do I prioritise building them? Nope: the Preserve takes up a valuable early district slot, and I don't usually get around to building the Diplo Quarter until around the Renaissance era. Are they essential to survival? Absolutely not. How many cities do you build them in? Et cetera. But equally, it's undeniable that both buildings will eventually give you very strong yields. The Arena doesn't even do that. The only reason you will ever build one early in the game is to get the Colosseum. So for me, it is the obvious candidate for first elimination.