Ancient Combat Tips

[eyrei]

Combat during the ancient times is one of the hardest aspects of the game. The units attack/defense values are so evenly matched that no combat is a sure win. Add to this that the results of one or two combats can change the course of the game at this point, and it makes for one big headache. Also, the human player (at least in my experience) is usually outnumbered pretty badly. I have found that horsemen are a very useful unit, mainly because of the retreat ability. Even though they don't win the combat, they do not necessarily die, keeping you from getting even more badly outnumbered. The other thing I discovered is that it is almost always a bad idea to attack a city unless you have superior numbers, and the ability to take it in one turn. Once you stack units outside an enemy city, the AI seems to somehow get a new spearmen every turn. One spearmen can take out anywhere from 1 to 6 attacking units because of the even attack defense values. Armies of swordsmen seem to be the only way to consistently defeat units defending cities, and this is not always an option. These are my tips, and I am hoping others have some enlightening strategies as well.

 

[Thoth]

Horsemen are definitely the way to go in the Ancient era. The retreat ability makes them very powerfull (watch out for those Zulu Impis though!). The bulk of my ancient army consists of horsemen, with a few swordsmen for extra punch.

If you're stuck without iron and/or horses it becomes a little tougher. Beeline for Mathematics. Build a *lot* of catapults, spearmen and archers. You'll want at least 4 (preferably 6-8) catapults per seige train as they aren't very accurate. Stack them with vet spearmen and vet archers. Use the catapults to soften up the defenses (this may take several turns, the more catapults you have the better), then have your archers attack the city. You'll take casulties, but it is doable.

If your enemy has access to iron/horses, you'll need to pillage the roads to these resources ASAP (or capture the cities early if they're on the border).

If you are cash heavy, (which often happens to me as a Despotism, there's not much to spend money on), and think you can obtain access to an iron source in the near future, build a lot of vet warriors. Once you have access to the iron, upgrade your warriors to swordsmen. 10 shields plus 40g. Pretty darn cheap.

 

[Moulton]

Perhaps the key reason I have never gone for early conquest

And since your units cannot heal, outside their home territory, if you don't take that city in one turn, you have no place convenient to heal up. While the AI does not have this limitation. Watch their units, including ships, heal on the next turn, no matter where they are.

My Marine friends used to tell me ( in a previous life) that when they planned an assault on a beach they wanted the odds to be at least 5 to 1 in their favor. Seems like a good rule here, but getting enough units early to make 5 to 1 is difficult at best.

 

[Moulton]

Yep, I conquered Rome with a train of 24 catapults. Hit about 1 out of 6, and made a lot of rattling going from town to town
I had iron, and samauri to attack, but the catapults to soften up the Legions until I could cut his iron off. ONce that happened, it was all over--no more replacement legioins. Funny, he had three sources of iron, but never developed but one connection.
The AI shows some smarts from time to time. He sent a marauder in to cut off my saltpeter source once.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Moulton
And since your units cannot heal, outside their home territory, if you don't take that city in one turn, you have no place convenient to heal up. While the AI does not have this limitation. Watch their units, including ships, heal on the next turn, no matter where they are.

D

Your units can heal in neutral territory. Just not in enemy territory until you get battlefield medicine. I think I have seen the AI heal in my territory though. It doesn't seem to know that it can since damaged units will retreat outside your borders to heal.

 

[Thoth]

Originally posted by Moulton
Perhaps the key reason I have never gone for early conquest

And since your units cannot heal, outside their home territory, if you don't take that city in one turn, you have no place convenient to heal up. While the AI does not have this limitation. Watch their units, including ships, heal on the next turn, no matter where they are.

My Marine friends used to tell me ( in a previous life) that when they planned an assault on a beach they wanted the odds to be at least 5 to 1 in their favor. Seems like a good rule here, but getting enough units early to make 5 to 1 is difficult at best.

The lack of healing is one of the reasons you want horsemen/catapults in your siege train. Bombard the defenders down to 1-2 hp, and send in the infantry.

Local force superiority of 4 or 5 to 1 is fairly easy to obtain. The AI will typically have two defenders per city, which means you'll want 6-8 archers plus 2-3 spearmen and 4-6 catapults to take the city. If you've got horses, 2-3 spearmen plus 5 or 6 horsemen will make a very workable strike force. The retreat ability of the horsemen allows them to be used to soften up the defenders. You'll likely lose one or two (they won't retreat once the enemy is down to 1 hp), but you'll take the city. Make sure you allow your spearmen to keep up with your horsemen, you'll need them to soak up the enemy counter-attack (and as garrisons)

 

[eyrei]

Another benefit of softening up the defenders with horsemen is that the defending units will not gain skill levels unless they actually kill the horsemen. Thus, as long as they retreat they at least do not make taking the city harder.

 

[Angmar]

I have found that I really dislike losing battles. My solution to this is to use that fine save game feature. While I still believe in the 4 or 5 vs 1 defender is a key to winning any battle. Ill pile up enough troops next to a city that I want to take, and hit save. Then my goons go in. If the battle goes poorly Ill reload the game. Now this is one thing that I have noticed. Battle outcomes seem to be pre-ordained at the beginning of the turn. If you reload the game and go in again you will get the same battle results. Not sure if its 100% the same, but I work on the assuption that it is. If I lose a battle Ill simple pillage some improvements or just hang out for an extra turn and then go in.

I use the save game feature to its entire advantage, and think this is fair considering how many other 'advantages' the CPU gets.

Have fun and smash those cheeky CPU cities

 

[zebomba]

Enemy units can't heal inside your turf. Another reason to have border 3 cities.
What I've seen, though, is that they can heal inside ANOTHER AI's territory. And during ancient times. AI's cheats are just limitless.
And I go for horses. All horses... 24 catapults, dozens of infantry? Gimme 36 horsemen and I'll bing you half of the world, as the mongols did . In fact, my survival tactic on harder levels is just cripple all my neighbours.
About the fact they don't retreat if the enemy has 1hp, simply use a full health unit against it, and you'll rarely lose.
Fast units are overpowered in Civ3. I can take out an entire platoon of immortals, but if they have horses, dang. It's an 1v1 odd.

 

[RAL2000]

I have often found the best marauders to be strong defensive units like spearmen, pikemen, and musketeers. Yeah, they are slow as all get out, but often the AI will ignore them while they run around ripping up improvements. It doesn't take very many to make a mess of things while your offensive units are trying to take key cities.

I also agree that combined arms, and using a seige train gives better results. When horsemen alone work, they are fantastic. But there is nothing like wasting a half dozen horse on a couple of spearmen to ruin your entire campaign. Of course if you are going to reload when you lose, I don't suppose it makes too much difference.

 

[Polonius]

Originally posted by Angmar
I have found that I really dislike losing battles. My solution to this is to use that fine save game feature. While I still believe in the 4 or 5 vs 1 defender is a key to winning any battle. Ill pile up enough troops next to a city that I want to take, and hit save. Then my goons go in. If the battle goes poorly Ill reload the game. Now this is one thing that I have noticed. Battle outcomes seem to be pre-ordained at the beginning of the turn. If you reload the game and go in again you will get the same battle results. Not sure if its 100% the same, but I work on the assuption that it is. If I lose a battle Ill simple pillage some improvements or just hang out for an extra turn and then go in.

I use the save game feature to its entire advantage, and think this is fair considering how many other 'advantages' the CPU gets.

Have fun and smash those cheeky CPU cities

I have read somewhere that the game uses a "Seed" principle to stop the reload and refight tactic working. Certainly, I have never seen a straight reload and repeat give different results. However, if you reload slightly further back, or manipulate the situation by using the troops in a different order, or making some movements before you try again, then it definitely can change.

Not that I'd do anything so cheesey of course. It's my ...er...friend who does it sometimes..

 

[zebomba]

When under despotism, Ai's cities have 2 spearmen, while they have 3 defenders under monarchy and up.
So, 3 horsemen for each spearman are more than enough to do the job. It's all a matter of all at once.

About the random seed, there's no difference if you move anything in another order. Seems like if they're gonna win and take 2 dmg, they do it regardless of target. And if they're gonna lose w/o doing any dmg , they do it on any target as well. Not sure about this last thing, tho.

 

[Polonius]

Originally posted by zebomba
About the random seed, there's no difference if you move anything in another order. Seems like if they're gonna win and take 2 dmg, they do it regardless of target.

I don't agree. Perhaps I wasn't being specific enough, but I have found an advantage in selecting the order to attack. It's not that it changes the outcome of a specific man v man battle, but that the overall outcome can sometimes be better for you.

E.g. You have two men on the same spot facing an attacker. The "seed" has decided that one will win and one will lose (and as I'm sure you know, there is a random element and it's not just who has the best attack/defence rating - an archer can sometimes kill a tank). So if the second man was going to win - play him first! It has worked for me.

 

[RAL2000]

Uh, um, I'm sure you mean it has worked for your, mmmph, 'friend'

LOL I got a kick out of your comment above re: cheesy

 

[Polonius]

Originally posted by RAL2000
Uh, um, I'm sure you mean it has worked for your, mmmph, 'friend'

LOL I got a kick out of your comment above re: cheesy

Dang - found out

No, wait a minute, it's only my 'friend' who reloads. I do it by psychic divination - I summon my spirit guide (who's an Iroquois chief and a BIG Civ fan), I read my enemy's entrails, tricky stuff like that - hard to explain.

Seriously though, I think that it can be quite often be useful to re-arrange the attack order - and they even provide a handy in game (W)ait button to help you to do it (literally 'handy' if you look at the icon).

 

[Moulton]

The random seed would always be saved on a save/reload. Don't know how they would do anything else. I certainly don't.
What seems to be different is that events are pre-assigned to a number, and that doesnt change. EG. Attack 1 will go to A. Attack 2 will go to A Attack 3 will go to B. The initial sequence of numbers is probably random, but once the assignment is made, then no matter what unit you choose to send in on attack 1 will win. Or lose, whichever it was. This is per turn. You can change the order of you attack, and select the units you want to lose, or wait a turn and get a different sequence.

 

[Dragon2]

My strategy is to build roughly twice as many horsemen as I need to capture a single city and to rush-build a barracks near the front lines. Only horsemen attack any defender with more than one hit point. They usually lose and head straight back to the nearest barracks to heal, while full-strengh units move to the front to replace them. Once defenders are down to a single hit point, swordsmen take the city.

With this approach you lose lots of battles but almost no units. Eventually you get an army of horsemen that can roll over an entire country fairly quickly. Many of them are elite and give you a chance for a great leader. These should be used for the hardest battles that you think you can win.

It's ancient warfare that really pays off. All my recent games (Monarch and Emperor, standard map, large continents) have followed the same pattern.

1. Wipe out one neighbor ASAP, getting a great leader in the process.

2. Build the forbidden palace in that civ's former capital and grow the population of your cities. Now you have roughly twice the productive territory of anyone else, and there's a good chance that you will have most resources in your territory. This is a winning position in most cases, even though you may be way behind in the score.

3. Switch to Republic, pump workers out of size-6 cities as fast as you can, and avoid war until you have a railroad on almost every square. At this point you become very hard to invade.

4. Sooner or later you will be attacked. Ignore ships -- they destroy roads, you rebuild them. Be alert to units landing on your shores. Send units by rail to kill them all before they can attack anything.

5. Either before you are attacked (if possible) or after the war (if necessary), industrialize all your non-corrupt cities and build the Hoover Dam by switching from a half-completed palace.

6. Once peace is restored, switch to Democracy and build up a tech lead. Fight a war only if you need to capture a crucial resource or if someone else threatens to win the space race.

7. Once you have Mech Infantry, you have a choice. Either win the space race (easier) or switch back to a wartime footing, draft lots of conscript Mech Infantry, build transports, battleships, artillery, tanks, and bombers, and invade another continent with at least 100 units. This worked better before the patch ruined Communism.

The key step here, as many have pointed out, is winning the ancient war to get the full territory and production of a second starting civ

 

[Gruntboy]

I enjoy ancient combat. I don't find it terribly difficult - just challenging.

Until pikemen and knights the best defensive value is 2 or 3 with some special units (Legion and Phalanx for example).

Swordmen and catapults are standard attacking method - albeit slow. Some civs have a definite advantage, Immortals for example. However, I find most success with mobile units.

Take the Aztec Jaguar warrior. I conquered half the world with these guys and was using them up until 1000AD. When the going got tough, I switched to Swords and catapults (in jungle terrain) but my attacks slowed. My lightning victories over 3 civs were achieved with A1 D1 M2 units. Each could wear down a defending spearman and not be destroyed. Losses were light and my armies kept growing. An army unit of Jaguars can take a heavy defender on its own.

The best advice for fighting in ancient times: build barracks.

Veteran units really make a difference.

 

[Arrian]

Veteran mounted troops. That's what it's all about. Build a barracks or two and start pumping out horsemen. Sure, you will want a few swordsmen to go along, but use mostly the horsies (of course, if your potential foe is the Zulu, go with more swordsmen). Catapults are largely useless, except if you are fighting the Greeks or Romans. You will capture some catapults from the AI, too.

The more horsemen you build, the more Knights you will have when you upgrade... and then those become Cavalry.

The retreat ability of mounted troops is incredibly powerful, whether you're attacking or defending. Horsemen are great for softening up an invading AI stack of swordsmen. And, as someone else mentioned, defending units do not get promoted if they beat up a horseman, only if the kill it. Unless the AI unit is down to 1hp, your horseman will flee when he gets down to 1. Building large numbers of infantry units seems like a waste of time and resources to me, barring special circumstances.

-Arrian

 

[Moulton]

I could not build horsemen and immortals fast enough. I didnt lose all that many, -- the ratio was like 4 or 5 to my 1 -- but I was not sufficiently up in strength when then declared war. Of course, that is why the declared war...
Two things. The horseman cannot retreat when the opponent is down to one hit point. Now, if I send a full strength Horseman against a 1hp unit, that is no problem... But when he attacks a full strength defender, and hacks him down to one hP, then he can no longer retreat... oh well.

The second is mroe serious: Healing. I have watched AI units stand on my turf -- MY turf -- and heal. I have watched their ships sit in my harbors and heal. I have seen my units get promoted to elite, and not heal one point. If they are being attacked by a mob, they eventually die.

I guess I havent learned this level yet. Expanded fast, but not enough defensive units.... cant do both. And if you dont expand, ,,,
I guess that makes the initial takeover of a neighbor essential.
That would have worked, maybe. I had BAB on the run in the first of two wars. SHould have pursued him to nothingness, and then I would not have to build my own cities...