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[NFP] Ancient Era Policy Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Baigan, Feb 25, 2021.

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  1. Baigan

    Baigan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    This thread is moderator approved.

    In this thread we'll take a look at the Ancient era policy cards to answer the question: Which is the best overall? Comparing Military policies to Economic policies might seem strange, but ultimately there can be only one. It is not necessary, but you may want to consider some of the following questions when deciding how to vote:
    • When/where in the Civics tree is the policy unlocked?
    • How frequently and for how long do you use the policy?
    • Is the policy an auto-include in your government or is it situational?
    • How long does the policy last before obsolescence?
    • How good is the policy relative to its competition? (Military to Military, Economic to Economic, etc.)

    Rules are standard for elimination threads:
    • Each post should contain one downvote (-3 points) and one upvote (+1 point)
    • Votes must have a corresponding explanation
    • You may vote once every 24 hours
    • When a Policy reaches 0 or fewer points it is eliminated and should be removed by the next poster
    • No particular victory type or civilization is assumed.
    • Game and map settings are left at default, NFP games modes are disabled
    • You may consider the use of the policies throughout the entire game, not just in the Ancient era.


    Interested in previous elimination threads? You're in the right place!

    NFP Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...mination-victories-elimination-thread.664641/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sneak-peek-at-composite-victory-type-rankings-so-far.661225/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cultural-victory-elimination-thread-no-ss.661203/page-16
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-states-elimination-thread.660516/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/religious-victory-elimination-thread.659828/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/

    Previous Gathering Storm Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/

    Before GS Elimination Threads
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/
     
  2. Baigan

    Baigan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    For ease of reference, here's the description of each policy taken from the wiki.
    • Agoge: +50% Production towards Ancient and Classical era melee, ranged and anti-cavalry units.
    • Caravanseries: +2 additional Gold from all Trade Routes.
    • Colonization: +50% Production towards Settlers.
    • Corvée: +15% Production towards Ancient and Classical era wonders.
    • Conscription: Unit maintenance reduced by 1 Gold per turn per unit.
    • Discipline: +5 Combat Strength when fighting Barbarians.
    • God King: +1 Gold and Faith in the Capital.
    • Ilkum: +30% Production towards Builders.
    • Inspiration: +2 Great Scientist points per turn.
    • Land Surveyors: Reduces the cost to purchase a tile by 20%.
    • Limitanei: +2 Loyalty per turn for cities with a garrisoned unit.
    • Maneuver: +50% Production towards all Ancient and Classical era light and heavy cavalry units.
    • Maritime Industries: +100% Production towards all Ancient and Classical era naval units.
    • Revelation: +2 Great Prophet points per turn.
    • Strategos: +2 Great General points per turn.
    • Survey: Double experience for recon units.
    • Urban Planning: +1 Production in all cities.


    And here's the order in which policies were eliminated:

    1. Urban Planning
    2. Colonization
    3. Agoge
    4. Discipline
    5. God King
    6. Land Surveyor
    7. Conscription
    8. Corvée
    9. Maneuver
    10. Maritime
    11. Ilkum
    12. Strategos
    13. Limitanei
    14. Revelation
    15. Inspiration
    16. Caravanseries
    17. Survey
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2021
  3. Baigan

    Baigan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    Let's get started! Here's the list.

    Agoge (15)
    Caravanseries (15)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (15)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (15)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (15)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (15)
     
  4. Pietato

    Pietato Platonic Perfection

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    2,146
    Location:
    New Zealand
    How topical...wait, the domination wonder thread actually ended?!?

    Agoge (15)
    Caravanseries (12) Why does this even exist?
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (15)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (15)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (15)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (16) Absolute monster for getting every single city you have going.
     
  5. Lamington

    Lamington Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2019
    Messages:
    26
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Australia
    Agoge (15)
    Caravanseries (12)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (15)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (12) 15-3 I rarely (if ever) use this, and 20% discount doesn’t seem that large.. even for early game.
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (15)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (17) 16+1 Definitely useful early game to get that extra production boost when it’s harder to come by
     
  6. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Hungary, Sátoraljaújhely (spell it)
    Agoge (15)
    Caravanseries (12)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (16) 15+1 Helping civs without faith resources near their starting location to a pantheon since 3400 BC!
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (12)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (12) 15 -3 If you are going for religion, you shouldn't be relying on this card, and otherwise it's useless. It's also an early wildcard that can't even be slotted before reaching PP.
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (17)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
    Francel likes this.
  7. Prester John 2

    Prester John 2 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    97
    Location:
    Germany
    Agoge (16) 15+1 If I haven't already conquered two my neighbours then this policy is needed.
    Caravanseries (12)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (16)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (11) 12-1 I almost never use this. Gold is usually abundent at first and the immediate tiles are not so costly.
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (12)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (17)
     
  8. Baigan

    Baigan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2018
    Messages:
    77
    @Prester John 2 Downvotes should be -3, not -1. I'll fix the count for you.

    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (12)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (16)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (10)
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (12)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (17)

    Land Surveyors (9+1): I don't know whether it's a bug, but you can get two free policy changes the turn you unlock a new government. Land Surveyors shines in that situation because you can slot it in, immediately purchase the tiles you want at a discount, then change governments and switch to the policy you actually want to use until the next policy change.
    Limitanei (15-3): Has a small niche in Domination games. But even then it's not that good and I want to switch out ASAP.
     
    Prester John 2 likes this.
  9. kaspergm

    kaspergm Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2012
    Messages:
    5,193
    This is a surprisingly hard choice, I use almost all of these. I end up downvoting God King simply based on the fact that in a head-to-head competition with Urban Planning, God King seems to lose out.

    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (12)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (13) - 16-3 ... in unmodded game, I'd rather use Urban Planning. By the time I have more economic slots, this one is no longer relevant.
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (10)
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (12)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (18) - 17+1 ... extra production very early in the game is always welcome, scaling with cities lets this be relevant for surprisingly long - in fact I most often slot this right up to the point where it goes obsolete, and would have liked to keep it even after that.
     
  10. greenOak

    greenOak Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2010
    Messages:
    183
    New
    Agoge (16) 15+1 If I haven't already conquered two my neighbours then this policy is needed.
    Caravanseries (12)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (13)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (11) (+1)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (9) (-3)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (18)

    Downvoting land surveyors this early is crazy. I will easily buy thousands of gold worth of tiles before this card is obsolete - and it takes all the way until scorched earth before its obsoleted. Moreover, buying tiles is applicable to every single win condition, and every single strategy. This card saves me many hundreds of gold every single game - it might even be in the thousands.

    Revelation strikes me as a mostly useless card - at least on higher difficulty levels. With the exception of Poland and Greece, you need to unlock political philosophy to use this card by which point there's a good chance you've already got your religion. Even if you haven't its often not worth running. There could be instances where the points from this card give you just barely enough to snag the last religion, but these situations happen so infrequently. I can't remember ever using this card.
     
    GinandTonic and MrRadar like this.
  11. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,795
    Location:
    Łódź, PL
    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13) +1 Why does it exist? because in certain strategies it is useful to fill in wildcard slot. pottery -> writing -> currency for CHs with discounts for or any unique harbour spam into money driven monumentality inpeaceful games when you don't have to spam units, absolates late. I would not pretend it is top10, cause ancient era has many good policies, I just add +1 to increase chances to survive past weaker god king, strategos and other +2 great people
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (10) -3 it is so crazy opular among youtubers to pick just to have pantheon early. IMO very very weak and it would not guarantee free settler anyway. There are more reliable ways to get pantheon than sacrifising +1 hammer. The only time I would consider using it is Kublai / Minerva / Poland / Greece. And because I don't like any of those cases, I never use it
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (9)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (18)

    BTW experience teaches crazy strong land syrveyors which basically never obsolates would be eliminated first, as people tend not to know you can slot it for 1 turn and do the job


    Anyway
    Woulld be nice to add in descriptions, when certain policies obsolate, as it is important factor
     
  12. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Super Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Messages:
    6,163
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Gibraltar
    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (15)
    God King (10)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (15)
    Urban Planning (18)


    Revelation (9+1=10) - is a great card for sniping a Prophet without putting early hammers into Holy Sites, sure you won't use it if you are going religion heavy but it has a role - and you get a free civics change when you get your Prophet!
    Survey (15-3=12) - unless you are Germany or playing with no barbs you have to slot discipline in so you have no space for Survey.
     
  13. Chefofrats

    Chefofrats Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2018
    Messages:
    377
    Location:
    The Cardboard Country
    Survey (12-3 = 9) - this is just a silly policy card. Why would I sacrifice a bonus against barbarians or a bonus to unit production for THIS? Perhaps it makes minor sense for Cree with their unique scout, but even then, the other cards seem more powerful.

    Discipline (15+1=16) - this on the other hand is almost always useful, reducing the often very real barbarian threat to a nuisance.

    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (15)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (10)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (15)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (9)
    Urban Planning (18)
     
  14. Naeshar

    Naeshar Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    298
    Gender:
    Male
    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (16)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (10)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (9)
    Urban Planning (18)

    2/3 of the policies are situational and the rest I use almost all the time. (Urban Planning, Discipline, Agoge, Conscription later...)
    Inspiration (12) 15-3 out of the wildcards probably least useful. If I focus campuses, it's not needed, maybe for the first GS, but then... never. Early GS aren't very good.
    Colonization (16) 15+1 only slot this if I plan on expanding, but is super important.
     
  15. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    3,228
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rouen, Normandy
    Well... I'm late for the party.

    Yeah, I still don't know why thought that thread was a good idea... :p Apologies for that endeavour.

    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (16)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (7) (10-3)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (9)
    Urban Planning (19) (18+1)

    God King: When is this actually useful? Never go for it instead of Urban Planning, just don't, it isn't worth it. +1 Faith and +1 Gold in the Capital is just not comparable to +1 Production in all Cities. If they moved this to all Cities, it would be more useful. If this doesn't go first, it's either going to be Revelation or Survey that goes next.

    Urban Planning: See above for reasoning.
     
  16. Leucarum

    Leucarum Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2018
    Messages:
    1,092
    Gender:
    Male
    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (17) (16+1) If you are churning out settlers you'll want thia slotted. You are probably churning out settlers in the ancient era.
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (7)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (6) (9-3) Maybe a niche strategy with the Cree, but difficult to justify slotting this in over discipline or later millitary cards...
    Urban Planning (19)
     
  17. Francel

    Francel Madam Secretary

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2018
    Messages:
    433
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Luna
    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (17)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (8) (7+1) - Nice to see new elimination contest. I wanted to upvote maritime industries, but I see god king is tanking... it is very useful in a specific context - when your strategy needs a specific pantheon that ai are likely to select; otherwise, not so much
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (15)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (3) (6-3) - i don’t build scouts, so I never use this. Slingers are where it’s at early.
    Urban Planning (19)
     
  18. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    8,285
    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (17)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (9) 90% of non religious games I have no faith when this becomes available. This isn't about a "super early pantheon" this is where pantheons come from. If I am religious then likely the whole strat revolves around getting the right pantheon so getting it earlier is better. Obviously as soon as you have a pantheon this is chucked out never to be considered again but, 9 times in 10, the benefits of the pantheon that effects your whole game comes from this card.
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (12) Irrelevant. Not enough to move a city from "can't hold" to "needs gov" or to "loyalty fine without gov".
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (3)
    Urban Planning (19)

    This is assuming we are talking about the base game. Voidsingers obviously devalue god king.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
    Pietato and Francel like this.
  19. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    201
    A very intriguing elimination thread ... I like it very much!

    Agoge (16)
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (17)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (10) (9+1)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (10)
    Strategos (15)
    Survey (0) (ELIMINATED)
    Urban Planning (19)

    God King (10) (9+1) Woah woah, steady on. Yes, there is a genuine argument to be had whether God King or Urban Planning is the better opener (for me: I almost always start with God King, though I recognize it's probably not the optimal way to play). But even if there is a debate to be had there, that does NOT mean God King should be going so soon. It will still grab you an earlier pantheon than most civs; and although that doesn't mean the settler pantheon, it does mean you still get to pick between some very-powerful 2nd tier choices: e.g. Divine Spark, God of the Sea, God of the Forge, etc., all of which can radically boost your game in the long run.

    In my opinion, all the wildcard cards should be eliminated first, plus Caravanseries and Limitanei, before we even consider getting rid of God King.

    Survey (0) (3-3) ELIMINATED. The obvious candidate for first elimination. Unless you're playing as the Cree (or maybe the Inca), there is almost no benefit in levelling up your scouts.
     
  20. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,732
    Agoge (17) (16+1) Can be a real life saver, especially after going for a religion.
    Caravanseries (13)
    Colonization (17)
    Corvée (15)
    Conscription (15)
    Discipline (16)
    God King (10)
    Ilkum (15)
    Inspiration (12)
    Land Surveyors (11)
    Limitanei (12)
    Maneuver (15)
    Maritime Industries (15)
    Revelation (7) (10-3) I believe I have used every other card on the initial list at least once, except this one. By the point I get to PP, I either already have a religion or all religions are gone. 0 use. This should have gone first.
    Strategos (15)
    Urban Planning (19)

    Survey out first? Unbelievable! I'm appalled. In situations where there's no immediate threat, it helps to level up scouts faster and help them with movement through rough terrain, thus further increasing their survivability, so they can uncover even more terrain for you. Definitely wasn't deserving to go so soon, alas!
     
    linaker, kaspergm and AntSou like this.
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