Ancient Ruins Observation

[Uzael36]

I've read many places that the ancient ruins were random and while they can change, they do not appear random at all, at least not as you'd expect.

I discovered, while playing the same exact game a few different times, is that if you follow the same exact path as you did in a previous game with your warrior and scouts, the ancient ruins give you the exact same prizes. Even the barbarian camps show up in the exact same places. If I follow a different path while exploring, the ruins change to different prizes and barbarian camps show up in different spots. Every seemingly random ancient ruin and barbarian placement appears to be calculated based on the moves you made.

I wonder how many choices that are based on randomness makes it choices based on a calculation on the choices you made?

 

[tetley]

There is an advanced setting that shuffles up the random seed even f you follow the same exact path. That setting can be abused, though.

 

[Uzael36]

I've heard of people who will save and restart to get better ruins. I once tested it to see how true it was, and didn't appear to ever change. I'm guessing that random seed setting is required for that and is the abuse you were talking about.

 

[Acken]

With no random seed if you do the exact same thing, a ruin won't change. However if you do make changes you will get a different bonus.

For example you can try: You see a ruin, pick it on turn X. Reload. Now pick it on turn X+1, there is a good chance you'll get something else.

 

[Uzael36]

I definitely noticed that, and even tried it a few times to see different outcomes. I am not sure if it was based on turn times though. I think it was based on what parts of the map were uncovered or path. As I could get a different ruin when my warrior followed a different path, when my scout followed the same one and got a ruin.

 

[joncnunn]

Use of a time machine will often give a different result, but unless there is a nearby barb that can be attacked the same turn it requires waiting for the next turn.

 

[comatosedragon]

Use of a time machine will often give a different result, but unless there is a nearby barb that can be attacked the same turn it requires waiting for the next turn.

Wasn't there some kind of mention of "Time Travel" in SMAC when you would reload a save? I seem to remember that.

 

[Acken]

I definitely noticed that, and even tried it a few times to see different outcomes. I am not sure if it was based on turn times though. I think it was based on what parts of the map were uncovered or path. As I could get a different ruin when my warrior followed a different path, when my scout followed the same one and got a ruin.

Well yes it's not based on turn time. It's based on past actions, passing a turn is just an example.

 

[Vitruvius]

I think the random seed works this way. At the start of each turn the game generates a list of random numbers between 0 and 1. Each random event will take up a number in sequence. So for example if the next random number is 0.1 and its within the range that corresponds with a free tech, then whatever ruin you take on the map regardless of location will give you a free tech. Since it is a free tech it may trigger a second random number to determine what tech you get. If you wait a turn of course then you get a different sequence of random numbers. Now, I think combat and coups each get their own random seed therefore if you complete a combat before taking the ruin, it will not affect the nature of the ruin.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[Acken]

Random seed options make it so you can get different results while doing the same thing, since it takes a different seed (which is used for every random number) everytime you load. Without the options the seed is always the same therefore doing the same thing over and over yields the exact same results.

This is even true for AI behavior since it uses some randomness in its decisions.

 

[Uzael36]

And to further elaborate. Random number generators are not random at all. They produce a string of numbers that are exactly the same every time. Using a seed, causes the random number generator to start at a different point in that list of numbers or calculation that comes up with the numbers, so every time you ask for a new number, it appears to be random.

 

[joncnunn]

The reason passing the turn works is that during the AIs turn, each of them are going to use up at least one of the stringed numbers.

 

[budweiser]

Has anyone ever gotten the same result twice in a row? or is it more like the Shoshone UA where it skips a few rotations?

 

[Uzael36]

Has anyone ever gotten the same result twice in a row? or is it more like the Shoshone UA where it skips a few rotations?

On one of your challenges that I repeated a few times to try and improve my game, I got the same result on several ruins, time after time. Then I tried some different pathways at the start, and I got different results. That is why I made this post.

 

[budweiser]

On one of your challenges that I repeated a few times to try and improve my game, I got the same result on several ruins, time after time. Then I tried some different pathways at the start, and I got different results. That is why I made this post.

I understand, but I mean has anyone ever popped, culture for example, from two consecutive huts? Not reloading and getting the same result from the same hut.

 

[tetley]

You can't even get two-in-a-row culture huts as Shoshone.

 

[Uzael36]

I understand, but I mean has anyone ever popped, culture for example, from two consecutive huts? Not reloading and getting the same result from the same hut.

I know I've heard people getting "uncover the map" ruins consecutively in the late game after exploring land undiscovered. I had 2 or 3 culture ones lastnight in short succession, but I didn't pay close enough attention to know if there was something in between them or not.

 

[joncnunn]

Has anyone ever gotten the same result twice in a row?

Yes, if you're NOT the Shoshone, it can happen.

 

[Ravellion]

Yes, if you're NOT the Shoshone, it can happen.

That was fun in Vanilla pre patches: oh, an upgrade ruin. And another. And another. Presto, 3000BC rifleman

 

[tetley]

I made a mod where you build the ancient Crop Circles wonder, and you got a Free Giant Death Robot from aliens. Shamelessly OP.