JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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AND2.0 Civics
- Thread starter JosEPh_II
- Start date
Arkatakor
King
I can't say I have much to say about civics beyond the following brief points:
1) The economy civics definitely need revision. I basically keep slavery right up until free market. Coinage is an utter disaster and needs a remake at all costs. As for Guilds, I would make it such that the Guild Hall building either has the gold requirement removed or is that this building is buildable also with silver.
2) Liberalism should have a +25 % war weariness. Last I checked, liberal societies tend to protest more when things displease them, particularly wars.
3) I would suggest increasing war weariness in democracy to 50% up from 35%.
4) I am not sure about republic and particularly democracy having all those
and 
bonuses in the capital. Seems rather monarchic / feudalistic to me.
If the economy civics are indeed revised and there is a strong feel that there is too much surplus gold as a result, my suggestion would be to significantly increase the "Number of Cities" maintenance costs. This would also reduce early overbloated empires. In fact I am tired of seeing this game rely on a land based economy and the "bigger is always better" rule. I have done some brainstorming on the topic as to how to resolve this. This however, is another discussion. In the meanwhile, if people agree with me that they are tired of seeing the largest civs always dominate the game, my suggestion would be to significantly increase maintenance costs for number of cities (not distance to palace) for both human and AI players.
1) The economy civics definitely need revision. I basically keep slavery right up until free market. Coinage is an utter disaster and needs a remake at all costs. As for Guilds, I would make it such that the Guild Hall building either has the gold requirement removed or is that this building is buildable also with silver.
2) Liberalism should have a +25 % war weariness. Last I checked, liberal societies tend to protest more when things displease them, particularly wars.
3) I would suggest increasing war weariness in democracy to 50% up from 35%.
4) I am not sure about republic and particularly democracy having all those
and bonuses in the capital. Seems rather monarchic / feudalistic to me.If the economy civics are indeed revised and there is a strong feel that there is too much surplus gold as a result, my suggestion would be to significantly increase the "Number of Cities" maintenance costs. This would also reduce early overbloated empires. In fact I am tired of seeing this game rely on a land based economy and the "bigger is always better" rule. I have done some brainstorming on the topic as to how to resolve this. This however, is another discussion. In the meanwhile, if people agree with me that they are tired of seeing the largest civs always dominate the game, my suggestion would be to significantly increase maintenance costs for number of cities (not distance to palace) for both human and AI players.
gdambrauskas
Warlord
simplify. Currently all of these "enables +1 on A, -1 on B, enables building A B, disables C, increases % on something, reduces % on something else" is just distracting from the game. I keep having to check if the building gains some benefit from a civic etc Sticking to few positive and 1-2 clear negatives would help.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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gdambrauskas
Warlord
was scouring mod components and this is a good ilustration(maybe vanilla civ had similar things, but i played very little of vanilla civ) http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14719 of simple, easy to remember and meaningful choices. When I play with my wife, she can never make a civic choice without my help which is a sign of way too many -/+ attached to a civic choice.
since you are choosing multiple categories for civics anyway, together it adds up to enough variety and does not stress the brain to remember all the intricacies (that are present in AND for while). As sid said, the loss should come not from the choice, but from not being able to have chosen something else.
since you are choosing multiple categories for civics anyway, together it adds up to enough variety and does not stress the brain to remember all the intricacies (that are present in AND for while). As sid said, the loss should come not from the choice, but from not being able to have chosen something else.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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gdambrauskas
Warlord
1 question first: there does not seem to be any revolution index points? is this intentional? goverment civics do have a lot to do with unrest in the country.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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Just thought I would add that, as per the civic change cycle discussed in the other post, in my extremely long game I change it to 80 turns between changes, and the ai is functioning much better like this. In a standard game, either change it to 20 turns, or, even better, make this particular parameter a function of total turns.
gdambrauskas
Warlord
so do you like revolutions at all? I won some games by purely imploding my friend's empire in mp games. This is where deceiver character shines with extra promotions to annoy the city; revs are the icing on the cake for civilization games, why would you not like them?
I thought you could mess with rev index as well for civic.
I thought you could mess with rev index as well for civic.
And that's why I don't like REV, the ai is just hopless with it. If I played against only human plays, then yes it adds a great dynamic to the game. But because much of civ game play is single player, my first thought for all features/options is, 'can the ai handle it'
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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gdambrauskas
Warlord
I imploded my human enemy empire, not AI. We always play on diety, so rev index has almost no affect on ai; it gets some many bonuses, that it takes many turns(tens of turns, my wife did it once) to cause even one ai city to revolt, while for human 2-3 turns is enough to put a city into revolt state.
Anyway if you are not messing with rev index, civics had them setup well enough. On a side note, only master of orion2 and galactic civilizations had good enough ai and it was dangerous. civ ai was horrible to begin with and now with additions it is even more hopeless. There's so many ways to screw up ai, that i never play civ as a single player.
btw if anyone wants to play mp game, please let me know:
Anyway if you are not messing with rev index, civics had them setup well enough. On a side note, only master of orion2 and galactic civilizations had good enough ai and it was dangerous. civ ai was horrible to begin with and now with additions it is even more hopeless. There's so many ways to screw up ai, that i never play civ as a single player.
btw if anyone wants to play mp game, please let me know:
The civics are the least favorite thing I find in AND2, I miss the old Bourgeois civic, it was my favorite civic from the previous version as it aloud you to run a hammer-economy.
Bring back Bourgeois and ease up on all the war weariness and unhappiness bonuses, I don't touch those civics so all it is doing is hurting the A.I.
I need a way to create happiness through garrison without having to pay +1 gold per unit, as the game itself gives you very limited tools to control happiness and health to begin with.
The whole point of happiness through garrison is to help your economy so adding +1 gold to each unit defeats the whole purpose.
Bring back Bourgeois and ease up on all the war weariness and unhappiness bonuses, I don't touch those civics so all it is doing is hurting the A.I.
I need a way to create happiness through garrison without having to pay +1 gold per unit, as the game itself gives you very limited tools to control happiness and health to begin with.
The whole point of happiness through garrison is to help your economy so adding +1 gold to each unit defeats the whole purpose.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
I guess I'll leave this part of the civics planning to Joseph for the moment. I have a grand plan for reworking civics (and I mean changing them, not just tweaking xmls), but it's a long task and it will need time. And I'd like to see how civics are working in other mods as well (IPEX suggested Realism Invictus for example).
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
I've come down with bout of diverticulitis. I'm on 2 antibiotics and I'm getting headaches to go with my fever. Hard to concentrate. (Just a Great B-day present yesterday!
)
JosEPh
Oh hell, I'm sorry Joseph; I hope you get better very soon!
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
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