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Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran

Discussion in 'World History' started by Takhisis, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Takhisis

    Takhisis brown-haired beauty

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    up yours!
    Am I the only one who has recognised the OP's avatar as HIH Mohammed Reza Pahlavi? Whatever else, I am almost sure that he is not a supporter of the Islamic Republic.
     
  2. inthesomeday

    inthesomeday Immortan

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    Always figured it was a sort of tongue in cheek thing... cake had Malcolm for a while, and then when asked about it he basically said Malcolm was a fascist strongman
     
    caketastydelish likes this.
  3. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    why would it be tongue in cheek? perhaps now some individuals here would be better able to understand why accusing me of being a jihadist is not only islamophobic, but is also ridiculous.

    hh
     
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    You were not. Actually that recognition was why I initially thought HH must be a pro-Trump troll. (To be clear I no longer think that).

    Well, probably because you present as someone interested in social justice and the Shah represents...pretty much the opposite of social justice. He was a Western (or specifically American) puppet whose regime remains a byword for ineptitude, corruption and brutality, and commonly regarded by the American left as a symbol of the evil of American imperialism.
     
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  5. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    his father was forced to abdicate the throne during the us-soviet invasion following wwii. you understand the immense power differential between the usa, soviets, and iran dont you? this invasion was an absolute disaster for iran that no one wanted to repeat.

    i also take it you know nothing of the white revolution (aka the bloodless revolution). the shah launched a series of wide-spread reforms designed to weaken the traditional elitist factions that supported the old system. were talking things such as industrialization, the eradication of malaria, allowing women to vote, nationalization of forests and pastures, improvement of the education system, formation of literacy and health corps for rural isolated areas, profit sharing schemes for workers, and other means to reduce the influence of landlords to further support the working class.

    in 1963 he called a national referendum in which 5,598,711 people voted for the reforms, and 4,115 voted against the reforms.

    these liberal reforms were opposed by the religious class, scholars, and radical leftists as the white revolution was designed to prevent a red revolution. needless to say the radical leftists and religious fanatics gave us the iran we have today when they overthrew the shah.

    hh
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  6. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    It doesn't really affect your point, but you might wanna check your history regarding who was involved.
     
  7. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    can you just simply state what youre driving at rather than making everyone guess?

    hh
     
  8. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Hint: it's called the Anglo-Soviet invasion on wiki.
     
  9. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    and did i not already say that?

    hh
     
  10. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    "us-soviet invasion following wwii. you understand the immense power differential between the usa, soviets"
     
  11. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    heh, i see now. i had thought i said anglo-soviet. was just talking about american imperialism and wwii allies before that and mixed them up. wwii anglos/americans same power block and same banking system which is basically what wwii was over.

    hh
     
  12. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Maybe that's what people think over there, over here we think of it more as an existential struggle against a genocidal ideology.
     
  13. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    well i mean its probably no coincidence that the war started not long after hitler took control of germanys banking system and similarly iran was invaded not long after reza shah took back control of irans monetary system and the right to print money was moved from the british imperial bank to the national bank-i melli iran. and we all know the interests that run the european and american central banks post-wwii, bibi would be familiar with many of them.

    hh
     
  14. EnglishEdward

    EnglishEdward Deity

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    Well according to:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47914100

     
  15. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    It probably was a coincidence, given that the actual reason was about access to oilfields and logistics between the allies. Who on Earth told you this was about banking? Banking apparently being a euphemism here.
     
  16. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    iran was neutral during wwii. it was an illegal and unnecessary invasion. the oilfields were just further pillaging by the british. they sure were quick to take back control of that banking though. also, its not like the current tensions between usa/uk and russia/china isnt at all about the russian/chinese parallel banking system :rolleyes:

    you realize who churchills financiers were dont you? the ones who purchased all of his debt and relaunched his political career? if it wasnt for the soviets the man would have single handily destroyed england. heck, he destroyed the empire.

    hh
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  17. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    You're not going to allow Churchill and Stalin the benefit of the doubt in wanting to secure oilfields (even "illegally" - an odd notion to extend back to 1941) while Nazi Germany was occupying Western Europe and advancing towards Moscow? There's no possibility that he and Stalin might have been genuinely concerned that they might lose the war (and in the case of Russia suffer wholesale extermination)?

    Well the Bank of England was nationalised, so i'm not sure what you could possibly mean here. Perhaps you could be explicit?
     
  18. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I am aware of it, although I will admit I don't know too much about it. What I'm curious about is why you think the United States and the UK overthrew Mohammed Mossadegh, and why the very groups that were supposedly being helped by the White Revolution turned against Pahlavi and his government so decisively.

    Well, sounds like a totally fair vote and not rigged at all :rolleyes:

    Indeed, I'm greatly interested to hear the answer!
     
  19. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    Moderator Action: Feel free to continue the Iran/World War II discussion, but all Israel/Palestine discussion must go in the quarantine thread. Thank you.
     
  20. Hamid.H

    Hamid.H Warlord

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    the oil fields that were the most strategically important were in north africa and the caucasus region (stalingard). sure they were interested in the oil, obviously or they wouldnt have taken it and britian wouldnt have pillaged iran for their oil decades after the war. im just saying if we want to talk:

    the soviets and maoist china were far more brutal and genocidal than nazi germany. to a degree where you cannot even begin to compare body counts with a straight face. but you all backed them? why? isnt that kind of an ideology some sort of existential struggle? you have no moral high ground here and wwii wasnt fought over any moral stance whatsoever.

    and who profiteers off of that? does it not also operate independently as a link between the government and private sector much like the canadian system?

    the radical leftists, scholars, and religious fanatics were not being helped by the shah, reza pahlavi who was overthrown in 1979. prime minister Mohammed mossadegh was overthrown in a coup d'etat in 1953 by uk/usa central intelligence agencies. two different people.

    but to answer your question:

    most iranians loved the shah and still do. his rule was a very liberal one focused on modernization and reform, similar to his father.



    hh
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
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