Animation Workshop 2 - Archer

[Micaelus]

With the great assistance I received from posting previews to my swordsman animations, I figured that I would do the same with my first go at archer animations. I've looped the attack 3 times to give a good look at it. You'll notice the fortify pose is with the arrow nocked, but the bow not drawn (as I understand one does not hold a bow drawn for any indefinite period of time).

Unlike the swordsmen animations there aren't problems I am seeing right now that I can't pin down, but I'm sure there is room for improvement that I'm not seeing.

The figure is a Seanchan archer from the Wheel of Time (I hope to make a crossbow too) but I'm wondering if it will pass for a Samurai archer as well? If any who knows more could advise me in regard to that, I'd appreciate it.

Here's a picture of the fortify pose to give a better look at the model, which is based on written descriptions and the image to the right

 

[Stormrage]

K, some pointers:

1.The draw is weak.. that arrow wouldn`t fly 6 ft..
2.Let him hold for atleast a second before he shoots, he needs to aim that thing..
3.I don`t know if the boots would count as samurai-ish, but I like the unit.

 

[Virote_Considon]

Looking good!

The one thing I could suggest right now, is that he pulls the bowstring back further, so it looks like there is more power there. Right now, the pull seems a bit weak, especially to the actual shot.

EDIT: X-post

 

[Gen. Rommel]

Also, while he's pulling back, the wooden part of the bow stays in the exact same place, which is physically impossible. I would move it up and down slightly as he pulls back and releases. It'll look more real that way.

And about it being used as a samurai, a couple of things:

- As was noted, the boots wouldn't be very fitting. Preferably he should be wearing sandals and some kind of shinguard, or at the very least, some wrapping.

- The mempo mask would be impractical for a samurai bowmen. They need to see better than there swordman counterparts, since they have to aim at their enemies, and the art of using a Japanese bow is considered extremely hard to attain. The mask would impede the vision too greatly. Also, it would have no practical use either, since the mempo were mainly there to scare the enemy. Archers, however, never fight on the frontlines, meaning they hardly ever come into contact with the opponent (unless running for their lives, in which case, they're probably more scared of the enemy than the other way around ).


Other than that, he looks very nice, and with the above exceptions, he could surely pass as a samurai bowmen! Goodjob btw, it looks very nice.

 

[Plotinus]

What they said, and I would stress the idea of movement of the left arm and perhaps torso slightly during the aim/fire section. If you have him mostly static like that it runs the risk of looking a bit robotic (even if it's how archers really move). I would give him a couple of frames of stillness between drawing and firing, to show that he's aiming it, but move a bit once the arrow is fired.

 

[Bjornlo]

I also think it is too static. Adding some movement at the hips to slightly shift the weight back as he draws and to come forward again just after release would add some life to him.

I suggest a slight change to the coloration as well. Use a trans map to get rid of the cuff on the boot and make the pants a lighter shade, perhaps civ colored.

 

[Quinzy]

I do archery at home, so I can give some pointers! I'm not sure how much of these will have been mentioned before though.

- Standing about 70 degrees rather than 90 degrees (you seem to have that okay as it is) but aiming at 90.
- Pull an arrow, and knock it while the bow is down, (once again, as you have it)
- While drawing, raise the bow higher that he will shoot, then drop to the level he will fire. Don't raise it too high, just a bit higher. This should be all done in one smooth motion, the bow fully drawn as the bow is dropped.
- Fire, and let him hold the position for several frames, and repeat the animations


Some other points to note would be from most kyudo images i've seen, the quiver is strung at the hip. Secondly is the aforementioned problem of the bow not bending when it is drawn.

I hope you take these into conceideration The unit looks great! Fantastic model!

 

[Mithadan]

Quinzy would know better than I, but this is what I think:

1) More body motion in the draw. Try this:

--put both hands in front of you; left hand holds invisible bow, right hand pulls invisible bowstring.
--keep left hand where it is, pull right hand back to your chest/cheek/whatever.
--notice that if you keep your shoulders square to your target, your pull would be wussy.
--if you were to pull by moving your right shoulder back (thus twisting your torso), you'd have a beefy draw on that bow.
--moving your right shoulder back has the effect of moving your left hand further forward too.​

2) The bow has to flex, not the string.

--Bowstrings aren't rubber bands; the torsion energy is in the bow itself.
--I don't know if the animation program will hate you for this, but try to make it so you can't make the bowstring longer when it's drawn, but rather make it so that the bowstaves bend right back when the string is pulled.​

A longer pause between each shot is probably a good idea too, I gather.

 

[againsttheflow]

I would agree with all the above except having him hold the drawn bow. Have him raise it a bit like Quinzy said and release as soon as he brings it down. Holding the bow works better... for archery practice but this guy is shooting at moving targets. I'm not familiar with all the ins and outs of holding the draw and I'm sure certain archers did it but accuracy is actually improved in many circumstances if you avoid doing so.

IMHO the thing that sticks out the most right now is the draw.

 

[Micaelus]

Well, that was a good list to look at. I'll admit, rather sheepishly, that I hadn't even noticed the ridiculously small amount the arrow moved back before shooting forward in my first attempt. It took some looking to find a bow prop that would morph the bow itself and not just extend the string. I had a recurve (which I what I was looking for) that looked great in Poser, but after rendering it was far too thin to work at civ-scale. I've settled for this longbow that I've shrunk a bit. The string doesn't show up well, but I don't know that there is a way to overcome that.

As can be seen in the armor the unit is wearing, I've downloaded Kinboat's samurai props. However, the bow included there is without morphs, but the unit he created with it the bow morphs wonderfully. Was there a version with morphs? Is there a way to add them in Poser (I tried to find something but was unable)?

So far as movements before and after the draw, I'm not sure that they're good yet. As I was going frame-by-frame through the animation they were more pronounced, but now they aren't so visible. After putting a good deal of time into these minor changes, I thought I'd post them anyway. Further direction on the movement right around the release would be appreciated.

 

[Stormrage]

The problem is he is not standing enough.. "sideways".. Its his left arm I think, that makes it look wrong.

Stand up, spread your wings arms, turn your head to the left, and touch your face with your right hand without moving the right upper arm. Then try that with the paperdoll..

Edit: I found a good pic..

 

[Gen. Rommel]

First of all, he loks a lot better already with the changes you've made so far, so good job on that!

What I would still recommend altering is the movement when he's drawing, more specifically, in the back region. His body is staying completely straight during the draw, so I would recommend curving the back backwards slightly during this phase. That's a natural movement you make when drawing a bow, so it should help the animation to look smoother and more realistic. It shouldn't be too strong, but noticeable.

 

[Mithadan]

Much better!

This may be a timing thing that doesn't come through in the preview .gif, but I think it would look better if he held his draw for a few frames, as if aiming, before letting the arrow fly. Otherwise it looks like he's nonchalantly & sloppily hucking arrows in no particular direction.

 

[againsttheflow]

Not that you want him to look like he's carelessly loosing in all directions but again, I would tend to favor an instant release. A fluid motion of knocking the arrow, bringing it slightly above the point you want to shoot, dropping it that slight bit, add letting loose is actually very accurate. I myself am a very amateur bowman but I got this from a video I watched where the guy could shoot an alkazelzer (small tablet) out of the air. He pointed out that there is a big difference between shooting at targets (holding the draw) and hunting moving targets (in his case animals).

I would agree with Stormrage about the stance but looking better.

 

[Blue Monkey]

A minor glitch - when he turns between the two attacks it looks like he draws an arrow twice before firing.

 

[Micaelus]

@BM, that is the end of the attack animation returning to the beginning of the fortify animation, which doesn't happen ever in-game...it is just in the final run through, after the attack animation has looped three times.

 

[ShiroKobbure]

It will be good for a Japanese archer. The mempo is a bit odd, and he is wearing western style boots...
I would look at the Japanese sport of kyudo, it is different than other archery.
look how they load and aim.

arrow basket at the hip.
arrows and bow are very long.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lCKLGMK_3No&feature=related
a video of kyudo


also, please make a crossbowman! But Chinese looking, not Japanese

 

[Micaelus]

I will update my model to look more like the second image, with that style pant and foot wrappings...though they still will look a bit more boot-like. Thanks for that pic! So far as using the kyudo-style of archery, perhaps I'll remake this unit with those animations, but for my purposes this is unnecessary. Also, to do that correctly--does anyone have a morphable version of Kinboat's samurai archer bow?

A crossbowman will look roughly the same as the model I'm creating for this archer, but a Chinese crossbowman may be something for the future...