Another Canada controversy

NovaKart

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This is part of a broader issue of governments not repatriating their citizens who have joined ISIS. There was a big prison break attempt with some people escaping, according to some estimates hundreds escaping I think the Syrian Kurds either haven’t admitted to a lot escaping or else the report wasn’t accurate. So it’s actually a dangerous situation to leave their citizens there and those who have been repatriated have been almost entirely women and children.

And even then a lot of governments are reluctant to bring them back. Interestingly the central Asian countries like Uzbekistan and Kazakhstan have brought a lot back.

I thought the US had repatriated some people but I don’t know the details on that except for one woman I heard about recently.

This is about half the report. It’s rather long.

And I’m not trying to pick on Canada here this could be a lot of countries.


Canada is effectively preventing a Canadian woman and a young Canadian child detained in northeast Syria from coming home for life-saving medical care despite a Canadian policy allowing them to do so, Human Rights Watch said today. That policy allows Canada to repatriate nationals held in northeast Syria as Islamic State (ISIS) suspects and family members if they have potentially fatal medical conditions that cannot be treated in the camps and prisons where they are held.

A former US ambassador who has taken several foreigners out of northeast Syria on behalf of their home countries told Human Rights Watch that in days of exchanges ending on February 15, 2022, Canadian authorities refused his offer to escort the woman and child to a Canadian consulate in neighboring Iraq. The families of the two Canadians, who are not related, have repeatedly implored government authorities to repatriate the woman and child and have sent them medical records attesting to their need for life-saving care.

“How close to death do Canadians have to be for their government to decide they qualify for repatriation?” said Letta Tayler, associate crisis and conflict director at Human Rights Watch. “Canada should be helping its citizens unlawfully held in northeast Syria, not obstructing their ability to get life-saving health care.”

The two detainees are among an estimated four dozen Canadians who have been held for three or more years as ISIS suspects and family members in life-threatening, deeply degrading, and often inhumane conditions in northeast Syria. None have been brought before a judicial authority to determine the necessity and legality of their detention, as required under international law. More than half of the Canadians are children, most under age 7.

The Kurdish-led authorities in northeast Syria detaining the Canadians and other foreigners have repeatedly urged home countries to repatriate their nationals. Canada has only allowed three of the detained nationals to come home, a 5-year-old orphaned girl in 2020, a 4-year-old girl in March 2021 and, eight months later, the second girl’s mother, whom it only provided emergency travel documents after a lawyer took the case to court. Canada has said that repatriating its nationals could pose a security risk and that it is too dangerous for its diplomats to travel inside war-torn northeast Syria to extract them.

However, the government has said that if Canadians reach a consulate, it will assist them, including if they request repatriation. In addition, Global Affairs Canada, the foreign ministry, adopted a policy framework in January 2021 that allows Canada to “consider” repatriations of its nationals held in northeast Syria on a case-by-case basis under certain conditions. The government never publicly announced the policy framework, called the “Government of Canada Policy Framework to Evaluate the Provision of Extraordinary Assistance: Consular Cases in North-Eastern Syria.” But it filed it in court papers in January 2022 in response to a casebrought by the families of 26 Canadian detainees seeking to compel Canada to repatriate their relatives.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/02/22/canada-let-gravely-ill-canadians-leave-northeast-syria
 
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This is an issue in the UK as well. One comment:

UK handing ‘propaganda gift to Isis’ by refusing to repatriate detainees from Syria

The government is handing a “propaganda gift to Isis” by refusing to repatriate detainees from squalid camps in Syria, a report has found.

“Should the detention facilities collapse, the impact on national and global security could be extremely serious,” said a report published on Thursday.

“In the meantime, the propaganda value to Isis of holding women and children in inhuman detention without charge or trial is enormous.”​
 
while you don't auto-lose citizenship for moving to and interacting with terrorists, i don't see why governments should take responsibility for bringing those people back either

assuming they actually "joined ISIS"
 
while you don't auto-lose citizenship for moving to and interacting with terrorists, i don't see why governments should take responsibility for bringing those people back either

assuming they actually "joined ISIS"
The famous case in the UK they did take away her citizenship, leaving her stateless. Their excuse was that she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship via her mother, but Bangladesh denied this.
 
while you don't auto-lose citizenship for moving to and interacting with terrorists, i don't see why governments should take responsibility for bringing those people back either

assuming they actually "joined ISIS"

The problem is that it’s a huge security risk. There are thousands of ISIS members in prisons in Syria (and probably some others held unjustly) and they were holding them in a converted technical school where this prison breakout occurred. It’s believed some people may have bribed the staff to let them use their phones. There are still a lot of sleeper cells around even though ISIS doesn’t hold any territory there.

Most of the inmates as well as the residents of the camps where families stay are Syrian and Iraqi citizens so this wouldn’t eliminate the problem if they were repatriated but there are thousands of third country nationals there and it adds to the burden.

And no one is putting these people on trial so the issue is not getting resolved.

The famous case in the UK they did take away her citizenship, leaving her stateless. Their excuse was that she was eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship via her mother, but Bangladesh denied this.

Haven’t they done this to some other people as well?
 
true, that should happen one way or another
The problem is who. I think Shamima Begum said she expected to be charged and tried for crimes, but the UK state basically denied responsibility.
 
all these people were trouble , they were basically carried to a war zone on Goverment expense , like when you make enough things (true or false) and theh killed a lot of people that were not liked by the said Goverments . Their heroic crusade folded reasonably in view of a larger strategic plan but for the little trouble of Russian intervention . The flame must be kept alive when the fighting needs to re-start . Nobody wants these people to go soft .
 
On principle I think these people are ultimately Canada's problem and we should repatriate them. But honestly, I really don't care if they are or not and why should I?
 
On principle I think these people are ultimately Canada's problem and we should repatriate them. But honestly, I really don't care if they are or not and why should I?

Because:

1. Some of them are children who did not choose to go there.

2. Leaving them there makes them a problem for the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, who don’t have the resources to effectively deal with indefinitely holding - I think this might be overall about 40,000 people, I may be off her by a lot but it’s a large number.

It is true that Canada’s share of this overall is pretty small and it wouldn’t make much of a difference if Canada did nothing.

In case anyone missed it, there may have been hundreds of men who escaped from the prison in Hasaka weeks ago.

Children who grow up in the camps like al Hawl are likely to be indoctrinated in extremist beliefs and creates more problems for the future.
 
Sounds like Canada just doesn't want to send its diplomats into harms way

Canada has said that repatriating its nationals could pose a security risk and that it is too dangerous for its diplomats to travel inside war-torn northeast Syria to extract them.

However, the government has said that if Canadians reach a consulate, it will assist them

So is this really that controversial? Aren't these people also accused of joining a terrorist organization, anyway?
 
So is this really that controversial? Aren't these people also accused of joining a terrorist organization, anyway?
The kids didn't voluntarily join.

That said... there's a term for people who deliberately put themselves in dangerous situations in other countries, holler to Canada for help when something happens that they need it and can't get it there... and after they're brought home and treated/rescued/whatever, they promptly scamper back into the dangerous territory Canada just spent $$$$$$ getting them out of.

It's called "Canadians of Convenience" and we've been burned so many times before. If they'd gone there unwillingly - as in being kidnapped, taken against their will, that's one thing. Rescue them, give them medical treatment, and if they stay here, it's not a problem. But if they go there willingly, scream for help because it's "dangerous" or they want medical treatment and then return... it's a totally different thing.

Kinda like the people who ask for asylum and when they get it, they promptly run back to where they escaped from for whatever reasons, and then wonder why the asylum is revoked.
 
I'm just observing that if ISIS had been more successful, then revoking her UK citizenship would be more viable. She tried, but failed, to trade her UK citizenship for an ISIS one.

I don't think that government efforts to strip her of UK citizenship will be successful. But I also don't think she will be jailed significantly

We can understand why both Bangladesh and the UK are trying to toss the potato to each other. As long as one of them accepts her citizenship, then she won't be stateless.


...

Oh wait, that's an old post
 
it does raise an interesting dilemma, the western powers propagandized people to the point of citizens volunteering to overthrow Assad. Now they cant come home.
 
I'm just observing that if ISIS had been more successful, then revoking her UK citizenship would be more viable. She tried, but failed, to trade her UK citizenship for an ISIS one.

I don't think that government efforts to strip her of UK citizenship will be successful. But I also don't think she will be jailed significantly

We can understand why both Bangladesh and the UK are trying to toss the potato to each other. As long as one of them accepts her citizenship, then she won't be stateless.


...

Oh wait, that's an old post

And she has been stripped of her UK citizenship and remains stateless in Syria.
 
Very interesting. I guess her goal was met (somewhat), but I very much don't like the precedent of creating stateless people by allowing them to give up citizenship into statelessness.
 
Very interesting. I guess her goal was met (somewhat), but I very much don't like the precedent of creating stateless people by allowing them to give up citizenship into statelessness.
Stateless persons are a completely bananas situation. Its totally dysfunctional and shouldn't be allowed under any circumstances.
 
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