Another Candidate for Banning

[Cartouche Bee]

OK, this is another loop hole that should be plugged off in the rules. I did not use this in the current GOTM but it could make it easier to score points because you could speed the construction of improvements in your cities.

Infinite Drafting:

By adding workers to a city you can draft many, many, units. These units can then be deployed in war or disbanded to gain shields to rush improvements in your empire. This is similar to a worker dogpile that was banned. Although this does cause unhappiness, it only effects the one city. Once you have railroaded and improved all your land you could turn massive number of workers (let's say 400 or so) into many improvements for your cities (let's say 100 marketplaces for example), all in one turn.

 

[Ribannah]

Then the pollution starts and you have no workers

 

[Creepster]

I think that one is already banned. I can't remember where (mayby HOF) they discussed banning the pop rushing in some forms. The main one that was banned was adding workers to a city and then rushing the production of a unit/city improvement to get it the next turn. Your process is very similar except on a much larger scale.

Even though that is banned I don't think it should be. By giving up population you do pay for it in unhappieness and the loss of the workers. I think that equlaizes out the cost of the structure. IMHO there is very little difference between using the workers from destroyed enemy cities to generate items or using money aquired from peace settlements to rush the items. While there is a moral implication they essentialy amount to using resources of one kind or another to get what is desired.

Using it on a larger scale jsut means that you have put the concept in a mass production format. What is the difference if you buy 100 marketplaces or use 400 workers for them? Again these are just my thoughts on the issue, but I am fairly sure that they are banned.

 

[Creepster]

CB,

While not exactly what you were refering to I think this is the same thing in spirit. Below I have copied the rule against pop-rushing. Drafting instead of pop-rushing is almost the same thing and in the spirit of the rules I would imagine is also disallowed. But you are right it probably should be spelled out to avoid confusion.


Pop-Rushing
In despotism and communism it is possible to use cities purely for unit rush building. Workers can be added to such a city and then the city can then use them to rush build units. This is disallowed, so do not create these kind of cities. Pop rushing one or two regular citizens to finish a building or to build a unit is within the rules and the spirit of the game. What is against the rules is joining workers to cities for the purpose of pop rushing.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Hi Creepster,

OK, the rules state in despotism and communism pop rushing is banned but drafting can be done in Republic or Democracy! If the current rule is implied, fine, let's clarify it further. Rushing 100 Marketplaces under democracy costs 40,000 gold (double that if starting from scratch). If a corrupt city can build a worker in 10 turns, that worker can then be turned into 20 or more shields by drafting and disbanding (depending on where you are in the tech tree). [Of course you always need a few workers around if you are polluting.] If you disband 400 workers you can only create 8 marketplaces. The difference between 8 and 100 improvements has exploit written all over it.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Oh, I think I may have goofed again as usual. Now I seem to recall that you can only draft one unit per turn per city of adequate size. So my example of drafting 400 units in one turn is not really a viable example.

Maybe Matrix can just delete this thread.

CB

 

[Cruise]

me --> <-- CB

 

[Cruise]

Btw i sometimes do use a worker to disband so i can rushbuild every turn

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Originally posted by EEKthedog
Btw i sometimes do use a worker to disband so i can rushbuild every turn

I'm probably upset that I've missed using this ability :arrow: but now I'm working on ways to use it.

I don't normally have Nationalism until I've got the game on the brink of domination so this is just a scoring mechanism to me. :enlighten

 

[Creepster]

CB, I am not sure how much benefiet you really get out of this. By the time it is available your games are set to try to max out your per turn points. By reducing your population by 200 or so citizens and the resulting unhappieness you will reduce your overall end of game score. I think it is better to rush the improvements by paying for them. There is much less damage to your overall score, and population happieness.

Also after the last GOTM I have decided that Communism is a wasted government. I was unable to really get much from it. With 100% to tax my treasury was still going down) Monarchy was much better for my needs. (Although as I am writing this I am realizing I should have turned on the war time mobilization button. I totaly forgot about that option, and have in every game. Not sure if it makes a difference. Mayby I will remember for this GOTM.)

Also BTW when you calculate the cost of the units you are under-estimating them. They are worth more than just the shield cost. You need to take into account the food value lost when they are drafted and the unhappieness created by the draft. These variables add up to help offset the cost of the 40,000 gold. It probably is not a one to one ratio, but it helps to make them more balanced.

 

[Cartouche Bee]

Hi Creepster,

I think the drafting is only feasible when disbanding unhappy citizens. Since the unhappiness from the draft only lasts for 20 turns, many times the gain of a quick marketplace can make a difference and turn 4 unhappy citizens to happy, so really you can gain if played correctly (combined with cash rushing) but surely not a banning offense.

GOTM9 was the first time I used mobilization to any extent and in a real war effort. I had two fairly long runs of mobilization that really allowed me to raise quite alot of cavalry and cannons. I turned those cannons into quite a few marketplaces after I found out how weak the Americans in the 1300's.

CB

 

[Jove]

Of course, if your city is size 6 or 12 and maxed out, and will increase in size next turn, and you can build or buy a worker fairly quickly, and you can draft riflemen or infantry, the population is replaced right away, you spend 10 shields and 1 city-turn to get the worker which replaces the draftee who disbands for, what, 35 shields? 20? I don't really know. Modern armor is 50 or 100 though. So's a leader or army-100 shields!!! Disbanding leaders is stupid of course, but obsolete armies, why not, bub?

 

[Richard III]

Or maybe people could just be reasonable and play the game the way it was meant to be played, instead of playing it like it was, say, a back-door card game.