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Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Andu Indorin, Jan 7, 2006.

  1. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    I have the game but I will probably not finish playing until next weekend.

    Overall I'm happy but there are lots of things I want to accomplish:

    * Build the UN and Hoover
    * Get Japan to declare war on us. Preferably capture a city or two
    * Deal with the barbs by killing the central stack ASAP
    * Expand and found a few cities.
    * Add engineers to some of our size 1 cities to jumpstart their growth
    * Build some new engineers
    * Deliver lots of caravans
    * My highest priority techs are tactics, espionage and automobile
    * Build some sewers

    I will probably accomplish only a fraction of this in the 10 turns I'll be playing. In addition, our shipchain is a mess so I'll start by rushbuying at least four transports. I prefer delivering the caravans on our main island to Japan and using the resulting cash to buy wonders instead of using the caravans directly to build wonders - unless the delivery bonus is very small.
     
  2. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    LOL. I was wondering where we got that NON-caravel. Figured it was pretty unlikely to be a barb-built deal. :lol:
     
  3. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    So maybe the Non Vans can go on the Non boat to be offloaded as bait...
     
  4. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    We've got espionage - there's a spy heading over to meet the barbs.

    I'd like to pretend that the NONE ship subconsciously registered and I therefore thought I could buy units, but I think I'd be stretching reality beyond breaking point. :D
     
  5. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    :lol: I didn't remember either. I very well might have done the same thing had it been my turn, but the opportunity just never presented itself. It wasn't until Andu commented about your turns and I saw you had made a note of putting them in a None caravel that I remembered having seen Duke buy the boat. Then the coincidence of using that same boat for similar shenaningans was perfect.
     
  6. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    Oops, I forgot about it because we have communism but not the UN yet. This makes things considerably easier and means the highest priority tech will be tactics followed by automobile. Also I'll build a few barracks and cannons immediately in preparation for conquering Japan.

    The only bad thing about conquering Japan is that then we'll need to deliver our caravans/freight somewhere else and farther away from our main island.

    I'm not sure the NONE caravans work well as bait. However, I plan to put a few military units next to one of the Japanese cities ASAP and then talk to the Japanese. If they do not declare war I may do a one turn revolution to demand tribute :D.
     
  7. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    Fixed.

    I mean, come on... let's be honest. :nuke: ;)
     
  8. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  9. Sharkbait

    Sharkbait Warlord

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    :lol:

    I think even the rocketry may be surplus to requirements.

    "MYSTERIOUS BLAST REPORTED IN THE UDAL!" Think we may something see like this? :D

    Or do you needs Rockets in order to get the spy suitcases?
     
  10. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    I'm now roughly halfway through my turns. Each turn is taking a lot of time. Lots of cash have been spent, pollution became a problem, techs have been discovered and things have become too peaceful for my taste.

    The Japanese remain enthusiastic and I'm getting seriously concerned that even a revolution to demand tribute is not going to be sufficient to get them to declare war. If anyone knows of the best way to goad the AI into declaring war I'd like to know :D. BTW we have the UN...
     
  11. Kev

    Kev Hired Goon

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    I'm quite surprised that the Japanese are so enthusiastic. I seem to recall that during my turns that they were getting to be very cranky. I was starting to get worried about them picking off our shipping chain going north.

    Been a while since I had to goad for CivII, but if we keep asking for stuff while being ahead of them on the powergraph, wouldn't that get them a bit riled (causing them to nix the alliance - are we still allied with them?). The typical ploy of insisting they remove their troops from our territory will usually get them going after a few tries as well. Setting up a dummy spy or caravan for them to sneak attack also might work.

    If it seems like too much trouble, it may not be a bad plan to leave the Japanese and send some engineers waaaaaay up north to settle somewhere on the continent with the English. If we can get to radio fairly quickly and rush buy some airports up there (and at home), we can begin a buildup of forces in their area. Seems the English are going to be the ones to give us bigger fits toward the end game anyhow, and they are certainly the least friendly toward us to say the least - shouldn't be hard to pick a fight with them. Also, in the mean time we can ship freight up their via air travel to hit some big English and possibly American cities. The process would probably have to start soon if that's what we decide upon.
     
  12. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    THE PEACEFUL REIGN OF THE NUKE LOVING VIKING

    I finally finished my turns. I made considerable process, except that it was impossible to get the Japanese or the Vikings to declare war. Several peace treaties were also signed so no AI cives are at war with each other. I made some microscopic progress in the foreign affairs department though: I managed to get the Vikings to end the alliance. None of our allies wants to gift us anything.

    1360 AD (0): Deliver all of the food freight to Belfast to help build the UN. The 'none-food' ones will be sent to Japan next turn. Buy two transports to speed up deliveries of vans to Japan since our shipchain is a mess. Set taxes to 60% and science to 10% (it was sci 60% (5 turns), tax 10%) to speed up the construction of important wonders, units and infrastructure. Delivery bonuses should take care of science. We'll now earn 464 gold from taxes. Take the first steps towards hiring more engineers. Adjust production in a few cities.

    1380 AD (1): Our spy near Lahinch killed by the barbarians. Must deal with them using a diplomat/spy from a boat by bribing a unit next to the central stack. Atlanta (American) builds SOL. Notre Dame -> Kyoto: 277 gold (coal; demanded). Rush buy a few engineers, freight and city improvements (including barracks :D). Pop. 7,830,000. Earning 508 gold/turn.

    1400 AD (2): Vikings develop metallurgy. Spanish develop invention. Our first factory built in Cork. Pop. 8,370,000. Two barbarian cannons bribed for 82 gold each. Central stack killed. Llangollen -> Roskilde: 215 gold (coal; demanded). Guinness -> Osaka: 212 gold (silk; demanded). Dinas Emrys -> Roskilde: 348 gold (silk; demanded). Notre Dame -> Edo: 126 gold (gold; not demanded). Further deliveries delayed since refining will be discovered next turn. Next turn enough cash should also be available for buying the UN.

    1420 AD (3): Americans develop metallurgy. Refining discovered, choose conscription over combustion etc. Pollution near Cork. Pop. 9,230,000. Guinness -> Nara: only 96 gold (gems; not demanded). Limerick -> Edo: 348 gold (spice; not demanded). Engineers from Killarney join Wexford since Killarney was supporting three engineers. Wexford reaches size 3 and is strategically important so rush buy temple there to prepare it for celebrating. UN bought for 1628 gold. Merthyr -> Lindholm: 312 gold (gems; demanded). Derry -> Lindholm: 160 gold (coal; demanded). Derry -> Osaka: 300 gold (spice; not demanded). Disband some galleons and rush buy transports. Dubh Linn -> Kyoto: 450 gold (oil; not demanded). May have enough cash to rush buy Hoover next turn. Dinas Emrys -> Kyoto: 278 gold (silver; not demanded). Conscription will be discovered next turn so delay any freight deliveries.

    1440 AD (4): Conscription discovered. Leadership chosen over genetic engineering and combustion. Belfast builds the UN. Again pollution near Cork, Hoover badly needed. The UN reveals that the only techs the AI has that we don't have is leadership which the English have. They are hostile and we only have a cease fire with them so there's no way they are going to gice it to us. Talk to the Spanish, Viking and Americans: Nothing. At the moment we refuse to give conscription to the Americans and to declare war on the English. Cork -> Satsuma: 524 gold (dye; demanded). Bangor -> Kyoto: 346 gold (oil; not demanded). Hoover bought for 2200 gold. Dubh Linn -> Osaka: 408 gold (spice; not demanded). Harp -> Kyoto: 320 gold (coal; demanded). Rush buy 1x barracks, factory and lots of freight. Double to science rate to ensure the discovery of leadership next turn.

    1460 AD (5): The Americans acquire leadership from the English and the English monarchy from the Americans. They then sign a peace treaty. The Americans acquire polytheism and chivalry from the English. The English acquire explosives and democracy from the Americans. The English develop economics. Belfast builds Hoover Dam. We acquire leadership from the Americans in exchange for electronics (they preferred conscription) but they refuse to gift us anything. City of Castlebar founded for strategic purposes. The only inhabitant is unhappy so a temporary Elvis is needed. A very unhappy citizen appears in Belfast. Disband a galleon and buy a transport. City of Kilkenny founded. Pop. 10,990,000. Musketeers from hut next to Castlebar. A spy sent to Japan reveals Kyoto to be heavily defended: 5 musketeers, 1 galleon and 1 diplomat, city walls and barracks. Two engineers build a fortress next to Kyoto. The baseline plan is to transport roughly 5 cannons, 2 cavalry units and 1 alpine troops unit to the fortress before attacking. Limerick -> Kyoto: 384 gold (oil; not demanded). Should have enough bulbs now to immediatly discover whatever we get offered to research next turn so halt other deliveries. Increase science from 10 to 30% to make absolutely sure we'll discover something next turn. None of our allies are willing to gift us anything. Rush buy temples, barracks and a factory. Talk to the Japanese and refuse to give industrialization to them. Demand withdrawal of their troops, They refuse but do not declare war.

    1480 AD (6): The Spanish acquire industrialization from the English. The English acquire philosophy from the Spanish and a peace treaty is signed. The Spanish acquire physics from the Japanese and the Japanese get industrialization in return. ARRRGHHH !!!? We do not discover a new tech, tactics (chosen over combustion, fundamentalism, genetic engineering and refrigeration). Ballybunion revolts, rush buy temple. Durrow -> Nagya: 552 gold (dye; demanded). Tactics will be discovered next turn so delay any deliveries. Osaka costs 5470 to bribe, has only 3 musketeers and doesn't have city walls. Attempt to get Japan to declare war fail.

    1500 AD (7): The Japanese remind us that we are violating the peace treaty by stationing troops near Kyoto :D. Tactics discovered. Combustion (goal: Automobile) chosen over Amphibious Warfare, Fundamentalism, Guerrilla Warfare and Machine Tools. Pop. 12,320,000. Wexford ->Izumo: 228 gold (dye; demanded). Llangollen -> Kyoto: 440 gold (copper; demanded). Talking to the Vikings ends the alliance :D. Tara -> Osaka: 522 gold (silk; demanded). Cardigan -> Kagoshima: 196 gold (dye; demanded). Bangor engineers added to Kilkenny to 'rush grow' it to size 2.

    1510 AD (8): Japan forces us to withdraw troops from Kyoto. The Vikings do not declare war.

    1520 AD (9): The Vikings remind us we are breaking a peace treaty. They have become hostile but despite this attempts to get them to declare war fail. Pollution near Dubh Linn. Share maps with Japan. Llangollen -> Kyoto: 464 gold (dye; demanded). Bribe barbs for 61 gold near Lahinch. Rush buy some engineers and freight. Dundalk -> Kyoto: 372 gold (gold; not demanded). The Spanish and Americans are happy but do not gift us anything. Rush buy bank in Belfast in an attempt to fix extreme unhappiness (black hats etc.). Increase the science rate to ensure the discovery of combustion next turn.

    1530 AD (10): Japan forces us to withdraw troops. Spain discovers leadership. The Spanish acquire railroad from the English who get feudalism (!) in return. The Japanese acquire leadership from the Spanish who get steam engine in return. We discover combustion, automobile picked ahead of Genetic Engineering, Flight, Machine Tools and more. Portmarnock -> Osaka: 342 (silk; demanded). City of Bantry founded. Llangollen -> Roskilde: 270 gold (silver; demanded). Wexford -> Kyoto: 412 gold (copper; demanded).


    I decided to stop here even though the turn is not finished - there are lots of major decisions ahead. Unfortunately I didn't get any of my beloved wars this time :D but in the final turn I haven't talked to the AI yet and it's an oedo turn. However, I doubt even a revolution is sufficient to get anyone to declare war. I suspect the freight deliveries are making the Vikings and Japanese too happy so maybe we should stop them for several turns. There are military units in fortresses next to Kyoto and Lindholm ready to start attacking when a war starts. We need more units in Japan though; Kyoto is heavily defended and it's only a question of time until the Japanese somehow acquire conscription.

    The transport northwest of Spain/Granada (at (9,113)) is heading north to found a city somewhere to use as a base for military operations against the English and/or Americans. That city will then build an airport the moment we discover radio so we can start transporting units there. There are two engineers aboard; I recommend using one of these to found a city soon (maybe on the island just north of the transport). This is 'low risk' but still significantly farther north than any city we have. The transport can then head further north on a 'high risk' mission with the remaining engineers unit to found a city in the far north.

    We might consider strengthening our defenses in our 'wonder cities' on the main island in case barbarians arrive by ship.

    The ship chain to Japan is slightly messed up at the moment since our units regularly get returned to Lahinch due to Japanese demands. Maybe we should found a city ENE of Lahinch at (10,178) to shorten the route to Japan.
     

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  13. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    Is the Fox still in? Otherwise I can play on Sunday...

    Hmmm -- there may be another way to goad the Enemy into attacking (althought it might be a bit expensive.) What if we were to build an unguarded city or two ICSwise near their favorite locales? Whould this be appreciated? Not to mention their opportunities at nabbing a free tech or two...
     
  14. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    This is probably a good idea - somewhat frustratingly it occurred to me shortly after I finished playing. It might even not be necessary to have the city completely unguarded. I suspect the Japanese would steal a tech before sneak attacking, thus allowing us to declare war without damaging our reputation. A city on the Japanese island might also be a good idea from a strategic point of view (allowing us to reach the island from another island in one turn). And maybe we should become commies for a few turns once the war starts to prevent the senate from interfering, especially in view of how difficult it seems to get the AI to declare war.

    I forgot to mention that the caravel and caravans that got mistakenly bribed are now located in the city of Bantry. I didn't decide what to do with them - maybe they should simply be disbanded somewhere and the resulting shields used to buy freight and/or a transport.

    I should also mention that the island north of our main island is extremely vulnerable to a possible seaborne Viking attack once a war starts. I took some minor measures in Dinas Powys (alpine troops) since it is very close to the Viking continent but the bigger island east of Dinas Powys is almost devoid of military units. A cruiser would be especially useful once we discover steel.

    Additional note: I collected some cash over the past few turns, mainly because we should quickly build superhighways in our big cities to increase delivery bonuses once we discover automobile. Also we should soon get Cure for Cancer, making celebrations easier to do.
     
  15. TimTheEnchanter

    TimTheEnchanter I...am...an Enchanter!

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    This is good thinking. I would probably take both engineers to Continent 14 and find a good quiet spot to set up shop there. That continent is massive and we will probably need to make our way across it on rails instead of sailing around it on boats. The sooner we can get a solid beachhead there, the better. I'd use one Engineer to build the city and let the other improve for a few turns. Then when we hit size 2, build the 2nd one into the city to celebrate and grow it fast. Waiting for one citizen to grow into 3 will take a long time. It's a little riskier going straight up there on the same land as the English right away, but I think it's more useful than a little outpost on that island with the spanish and another little one farther north. If need be, we can backfill some intermediate transit cities later, but I would hope we could use Japan for that before too long. :devil:

    If we're serious about picking a fight, we should get Machine Tools ASAP. I would not want to fight a war with our current weaponry. Cannons suck. Cavalry are ok. But we don't have many of either. However, with the extra firepower, Artillery roxor. It's not howies, but it's a pretty good alternative as long as you have rail lines available. With Artillery, Conscription shouldn't be much of an issue.

    I agree we should get a city started on the Japanese island ASAP. Not only will it tick them off and likely result in tech theft, it means we won't have to keep shipping units back when we are asked to recall them. They can just stay on the island ready to attack.
     
  16. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    Regrettably, Flatlander is very much MIA ... so you're up. ;)

    Plus, it gives us the opportunity to pester them with troop withdrawel demands. 7,153 (right between Edo and Satsuma to split the Japanese in two) looks like a good candidate; it's also exactly one transport turn to Nagoya and points northward (if the Senate slows a war with Japan). A supporting city at 4,156, just south of Satsuma would complement this once we take Satsuma, since it's one transport turn from Bantry. Then colonize island #29 between Bantry and Glenfiddich, and we can have a rail-and-ferry route from Dubh Linn to Japan ... and well on our way to England.

    Another option might be to apply this idea first to Island #17 ("canal" square at 13, 109) while rb'ing another transport for a short "chain"; and then proceed rb engineers and then repeat on Continent 14 around 20,94. This will take us a little longer, but it'll leave us a little better prepared to extend rail-and-ferry "service" to England. (It might be a bit of cheat to use those NONs in Bantry to build transports to get a few more Engineers up north to aid in that project ...). But either way, I agree with Tim on concentrating the efforts of our two Engineers aboard said transport.

    Raillines are essential. We definitely could use more engineers ...

    (I must say, the logistics of this map are intriguing ...)
     
  17. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    These look like very good ideas. However, we need city walls in these cities because if our units get withdrawn to them they may all get killed if the Japanese sneak attack and raze a city. (75,149) is another possibility - having a whale special is always nice. One thing is obvious though: We need to colonize island #29 ASAP. (70,176) and (74,168) are possible candidate sites.

    Regarding the Vikings, we might want cities at (39,215) to reach Jarrow in one turn, maybe a city at (52,228) and possibly a few cities in the area around Kilkenny.

    This is exactly what I was referring to in my comment of 'low risk' in my previous message. I think we should also try to send another transport containing at least two engineers north on a 'followup mission' ASAP. By doing this we can get a size 3 city quickly. The reason I didn't do this was lack of engineers and the fact that I was building railroad evreywhere. The two engineers I used had just finished building a fortress and railroad next to Kyoto.

    This was a major problem during my reign. We need lots of engineers, both for founding new cities and for building railroad and irrigation. There were just too many things I wanted to do so we still have far too few engineers - in particular getting UN and Hoover sucked up lots of resources during the first half of my reign. I still managed to found three new cities and 'jumpstarted' celebrations in at least two additional cities by adding engineers to them. And in addition we need several aqueducts, sewers and factories. Also I 'discovered' that banks are very effective for getting rid of unhappiness. Yes, logistics are a big and interesting factor. We may need lots of airports.

    BTW each turn is now taking a lot of time, at least if you want to be careful. I think we should soon reduce the turns per player from 10 to 6-8. This should be done once this 'round' is finished (i.e. once Old n Slow, Tim and Andu have played) and possibly earlier. Also I don't want the game to be finished when it's my turn next. If the game is not over by then I promise I'll nuke someone :D.

    Cannons are OK if the enemy doesn't have conscription. In that case (musketeers only) I want them in addition to cavalry because we may lose a unit or two while killing the strongest defenders and I prefer using cannons as cannon fodder (pun intended) instead of the more expensive cavalry.
     
  18. Andu Indorin

    Andu Indorin Retired Druid

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    As well as cleaning up after any "unforeseen" international incidents ...
     
  19. TheViking

    TheViking The world is not enough

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    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I just remembered that we are the only civ having conscription. Only the Americans are researching it. It would make sense to shutdown Leonardo's Workshop by discovering Automobile ASAP. The English have it and will probably acquire conscription the moment the Americans discover it, making their cities more difficult to capture since we might start attacking them before getting robotics.
     
  20. Old n Slow

    Old n Slow Emperor

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    1530 (0) -- Situation looks great! 13M Pop, 30 cities, 60 techs. Do some tweaking anyway. Rush a few engineers (only 18 now) & spend a little cash (do want to keep a reserve, though)
    (Remove four units near Kyoto;

    1540 (1) -- Deliver a couple of trucks -- Coal for 395, Gems (d) for 465 seven new engineers start to work.
    (Japanese discover Commy, Vikes discover Lead, withdraw five units near Lindholm.)

    1550 (2) -- Sell barracks in Derry (too few shields to support stuff.) Notice a true Barb uprising near Skara

    1560 (3) -- Found Fermoy & Barna. Deliver a couple of trucks.

    1570 (4) -- Found Leenane -- looks like a whale is a world of difference -- can use the citizen right off. Deliver a couple of more trucks; disband the last of the non units in Bantry (built a truck -- now if anyone has guilty feelings they can waste some cash (what would have been spent for a rush build) to make it all equal.) Pop = 15M

    1580 (5) -- Found Donegal.

    1590 (6) -- Found Quilty. Discover Refridge (want to generate some engineer support centers) Opt for MT over AW, Fundy, GW, MW. Deliver a half dozen trucks -- about half undemanded notable was Waterford gems to Izumo for 906. Pop = 16M

    1600 (7) -- Found Letterfrack, Shrule; deliver a couple of trucks.
    (Spain discovers Bank. Peasant revolt near Lahinch -- could be serious.)

    1610 (8) -- Found Achill -- the distant outpost. Bantry grows to size 2, drop some eng support from the baby isle for growth -- one eng joins & the other starts roading.
    (Vikes discover Dem, Amer discovers Mono, Eng changes to Commy -- Looks like the AI discovers techs about 8+ turns or so (but they do trade -- not noted here.) Pop = 17M

    1620 (9) -- 92 Units destroyed! Just in case anyone has forgotton one of the elements of this game.
    (Japan discovers AT; the Barbs slay my wounded cav.)

    1630 (10) -- Discover MP, Opt for Mini>AW, Fl, Fund, GE, GW, NF. Pop = 19M Found Ennis.

    All in all rather quiet set of turns. Wanted to fill out some of the emptyness too close by -- still need more Engineers -- also need to force build some of the tiny new starts. Some of the trucks on the Japanese isle can be moved -- the next player can make the call -- most of the goods are not demanded (payoffs range between a little under a hundred to a little over 300). Also did not talk to any of the AI (relations improved with Japan & Viking realms -- maybe all those deliveries help that situation.) Have a few extra food trucks for the next wonder lining up NW of Cork.
     

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