Another Feminist Movie Crashes and Burns

[Traitorfish]

So Hollywood productions must be physically made in Hollywood?
Being made and distributed by a Hollywood studio and starring Hollywood actors does not count? Being written by an American, Hollywood screeenwriter? Premiering in the US (specifically, in Hollywood) one month before everywhere else? Primarily targeting the American market and making more money there than anywhere else? Reporting as its "domestic" box office that which it made in the US?

I'm not sure that I believe that a film can be Hollywood by association, but even conceding that it can, shouldn't you be able to find a less awkward example of what you claim to be a pervasive and self-evident trend?

edit: I mean really Arwon already said it:

I just reckon if you're looking for that elusive sinister Overt Hollywood Agenda you're probably not gonna find it in fraught productions in other countries at the fringe of the major studios systems which were also apparently criticised for not being partially in Scots(?).

 

[RobAnybody]

There was maybe one PoC in the nobility.

One of the English or French nobles married a Spanish lady who had darker skin...

I heard about them. Didn't they renounce their royalty & move to Canada?

 

[Zardnaar]

I'm not entirely sure you saw Wonder Woman, but the entire premise was "Amazons, who are all women, are good, and saved men from the corrupting influence of the male God of War. Also Nazis".

Also, notably, downgrading "crash and burn" to "probably a flop" are two different statements. You can't mean both at the same time, because they're different predictions about the success of a movie.

It underperformed in release and anything's possible but you generally know how a movie well do opening weekend.

They had already downgraded the expectations and then they failed to net the lowered number.

The only way it would have done well is have a very small drop off week two say 25% or so.

Wonder Women had men as villains if course but they weren't really incompetent. Ares was a threat, they didn't undermine existing characters to try and make her look good and she made sense in her universe where gods are real and she's a demigod.

It's like they developed her character or something. They even have her a training montage.

It was also part one of a franchise doing her own thing. They didn't have to worry about existung characters or lore so they didn't trample on any of it unlike say Dark Fate. Dark Fate undermined it's own lore. John Connor, dead and he doesn't matter anymore. Erm what about the two Terminator films that were good?

Ares was also bad because he was bad, he didn't really have any problem with WW because she was a women.

Heroes and superheroes need an effective villain to oppose them. Captain Marvel was decent but where do you go in the future with that ending?

 

[Estebonrober]

It underperformed in release and anything's possible but you generally know how a movie well do opening weekend.

They had already downgraded the expectations and then they failed to net the lowered number.

The only way it would have done well is have a very small drop off week two say 25% or so.

Wonder Women had men as villains if course but they weren't really incompetent. Ares was a threat, they didn't undermine existing characters to try and make her look good and she made sense in her universe where gods are real and she's a demigod.

It's like they developed her character or something. They even have her a training montage.

It was also part one of a franchise doing her own thing. They didn't have to worry about existung characters or lore so they didn't trample on any of it unlike say Dark Fate. Dark Fate undermined it's own lore. John Connor, dead and he doesn't matter anymore. Erm what about the two Terminator films that were good?

Ares was also bad because he was bad, he didn't really have any problem with WW because she was a women.

Heroes and superheroes need an effective villain to oppose them. Captain Marvel was decent but where do you go in the future with that ending?

I feel like this post is just like a half drunken rant in a crappy bar. Like you are looking for fodder to support a petty point.

 

[NovaKart]

That’s a little harsh.

 

[Zardnaar]

I feel like this post is just like a half drunken rant in a crappy bar. Like you are looking for fodder to support a petty point.

It's the left wing version of fake news.

There's been a string of feminist movies tank at the box office.

The people and critics that go see them tend to like them. Problem is there's not enough of them. Women and liberals are staying at home as well.

 

[Arwon]

I don't think you read the article, @Zardnaar. Nothing about the opening paragraph alone talks about it crashing and / or burning.

And going back a post, what's interesting is your claim about losing 50% in its second week is something I've directly seen (as in, with my own eyes) passed around everyone who seemingly wants Birds of Prey to fail. Not saying that's where you've got it from, but it's a good one to raise.

Original tweet (has a significant account following).

Rebuttal #1
Rebuttal #2.
Rebuttal #3.

And many more in the replies to the original claim.

Maybe we need a moratorium on posts which are just regurgitating half remembered crank youtube videos

 

[Estebonrober]

That’s a little harsh.

It's the left wing version of fake news.

There's been a string of feminist movies tank at the box office.

The people and critics that go see them tend to like them. Problem is there's not enough of them. Women and liberals are staying at home as well.

Movies are down across the board. And frankly high intensity and graphics driven movies are not huge female draws. Sure a certain amount of girls and women really love comics and big effects movies, but the majority do not, and thus they don;t hit up these movies. Also with all the streaming services going there is less and less incentive to going out. Feminist style story lines are very powerful in the right setting.Handmaid's tale is huge, Stranger Things is a fem power show, Jessica jones someone already mentioned, Victoria, the Crown. I could go on. The point is your premise is dumb, the points you are making trying to dismiss female roles as money makers is dumb, and I am dumber for having read it.

If this is all about bad marketing and advertising, ok I guess. I never see the commercials for these things since Iong ago cut the cord.

 

[Zardnaar]

Movies are down across the board. And frankly high intensity and graphics driven movies are not huge female draws. Sure a certain amount of girls and women really love comics and big effects movies, but the majority do not, and thus they don;t hit up these movies. Also with all the streaming services going there is less and less incentive to going out. Feminist style story lines are very powerful in the right setting.Handmaid's tale is huge, Stranger Things is a fem power show, Jessica jones someone already mentioned, Victoria, the Crown. I could go on. The point is your premise is dumb, the points you are making trying to dismiss female roles as money makers is dumb, and I am dumber for having read it.

If this is all about bad marketing and advertising, ok I guess. I never see the commercials for these things since Iong ago cut the cord.

TV shows are a different media and it's easier to do things like character development.

There's also organic and forced diversity. The difference with organic is someone's gotta story to tell, does it and does a good job.

Forced us shoe horning into existing franchises with gender swapping and ham fisted story telling. Then making a big deal about it in social media and insulting people who call you on it.

If something's to blunt and in your face it's not fun doesn't matter what it's message is. Applies to right wing media as well (Fox news being prime example).

Outlander count as feminist? We like that show, Sense 8 was decent. Tell your story just make it good and don't F up existing franchises doing it.

 

[luiz]

I think you can make a good ideological movie regardless of the ideology. The key is not making it preachy and, well, stupid. It's the same with novels, really. There are some grea novels that are very politicized. Other politicized novels read like a party manifesto and are either ridiculous or boring.

So it's entirely possible to make a great feminist film - I'm sure there are some out there. But superhero films are already a dumbed down genre; so if they tried to make it too political it would in all likelihood suck. Not saying this one in particular was, I didn't see it and don't intend to. Just a general thought.

 

[Bugfatty300]

TV shows are a different media and it's easier to do things like character development.

There's also organic and forced diversity. The difference with organic is someone's gotta story to tell, does it and does a good job.

Forced us shoe horning into existing franchises with gender swapping and ham fisted story telling. Then making a big deal about it in social media and insulting people who call you on it.

If something's to blunt and in your face it's not fun doesn't matter what it's message is. Applies to right wing media as well (Fox news being prime example).

Green = Movie review. These are things that are applicable to virtually any movie. Good story. Good characters. Not ham-fisted. It's safe to assume that these are what most movie watchers, film makers and critics are concerned with.

Orange = Movie criticism / analysis. Here you talk about more specific things that can contextually be good, bad or neither, depending on the movie. They don't intrinsically have an impact a movie's ability to tell a good story and please an audience, especially in regards to fantasy and comic book movies. Gender swapping =/= Ham-fisted story telling.

Also blunt and in your face is a style of it's own; and not all good movies have to be fun and light on social commentary, even silly comic book movies: The Joker.

Red = Things that are irrelevant to both the orange and green.

To recap: Orange is why a specific movie is bad or good. Green can be applied to any movie.

You're mixing these up like it's shake and bake and it's like nails on a chalk board. Advice: Unsubscribe from clickbait youtube pop culture ranters.

So it's entirely possible to make a great feminist film - I'm sure there are some out there.

Fury Road.

 

[Thorvald of Lym]

I think you can make a good ideological movie regardless of the ideology. The key is not making it preachy and, well, stupid. It's the same with novels, really. There are some grea novels that are very politicized. Other politicized novels read like a party manifesto and are either ridiculous or boring.

Recalling several video essays, this is a perennial question I often ponder: Is media that wears its ideology on its sleeve necessarily worse than media that isn't transparent in its agenda?

 

[Zardnaar]

Green = Movie review. These are things that are applicable to virtually any movie. Good story. Good characters. Not ham-fisted. It's safe to assume that these are what most movie watchers, film makers and critics are concerned with.

Orange = Movie criticism / analysis. Here you talk about more specific things that can contextually be good, bad or neither, depending on the movie. They don't intrinsically have an impact a movie's ability to tell a good story and please an audience, especially in regards to fantasy and comic book movies. Gender swapping =/= Ham-fisted story telling.

Also blunt and in your face is a style of it's own; and not all good movies have to be fun and light on social commentary, even silly comic book movies: The Joker.

Red = Things that are irrelevant to both the orange and green.

To recap: Orange is why a specific movie is bad or good. Green can be applied to any movie.

You're mixing these up like it's shake and bake and it's like nails on a chalk board. Advice: Unsubscribe from clickbait youtube pop culture ranters.



Fury Road.

I'm not subscribed to any, I can show you my subscription list if you want lol.

Those type of videos tend to rot your brain. I watch travel vlogs, music, history type stuff.

 

[Zardnaar]

Green = Movie review. These are things that are applicable to virtually any movie. Good story. Good characters. Not ham-fisted. It's safe to assume that these are what most movie watchers, film makers and critics are concerned with.

Orange = Movie criticism / analysis. Here you talk about more specific things that can contextually be good, bad or neither, depending on the movie. They don't intrinsically have an impact a movie's ability to tell a good story and please an audience, especially in regards to fantasy and comic book movies. Gender swapping =/= Ham-fisted story telling.

Also blunt and in your face is a style of it's own; and not all good movies have to be fun and light on social commentary, even silly comic book movies: The Joker.

Red = Things that are irrelevant to both the orange and green.

To recap: Orange is why a specific movie is bad or good. Green can be applied to any movie.

You're mixing these up like it's shake and bake and it's like nails on a chalk board. Advice: Unsubscribe from clickbait youtube pop culture ranters.



Fury Road.

Did you see Dark Fate? It wasn't awful better than the last one but it wasn't good as such.

You can pretty much pick what type of movies are going to flop.

 

[mitsho]

We may be nearing the end of the era of the superhero-movie as well. I can‘t remember when I last went to a cinema to watch one of those. (I know, anecdotal)

 

[Zardnaar]

We may be nearing the end of the era of the superhero-movie as well. I can‘t remember when I last went to a cinema to watch one of those. (I know, anecdotal)

I suspect the MCU movies will get a smaller box office. The storyline got wrapped up.

Super hero movies are holding up the movie chains though.

 

[Arwon]

We may be nearing the end of the era of the superhero-movie as well. I can‘t remember when I last went to a cinema to watch one of those. (I know, anecdotal)

The MCU is gonna be veering pretty hard into cosmic/space/magic stuff for a while, which is shaping to be a long way from the archetypical phase 1 or 2 "one hero does a hero thing" stuff

 

[Traitorfish]

There's been a string of feminist movies tank at the box office.

Do you think it may be worth distinguishing between "feminist movies" and "movies which are framed as feminist for marketing reasons"?

None of the films you cited in the OP had specifically feminist themes. The common factor was that they were green-light based on the assumed nostalgic appeal of the source franchise, and failed because that appeal was over-estimated. There are plenty of male-centred films that fit that description: Robocop, Power Rangers, the entire stillborn Dark Universe franchise, every Predator, Alien and Terminator sequel after the first.

It seems more realistic to interpret the vaguely feminist marketing of some of these examples you cited as a concession on the part of the studios that the films just weren't very interesting on their own merit, not as part of some industry-wide effort to push an ideological agenda.

 

[NovaKart]

The Academy Awards seems to have a really overtly feminist and pro diversity agenda, even in years when that’s not so reflected in the nominees.

 

[Gorbles]

The Academy Awards seems to have a really overtly feminist and pro diversity agenda, even in years when that’s not so reflected in the nominees.

The Academy Awards seems to have a really MRA-esque and anti-diversity agenda, even in years when that's not so reflected in the nominees.

You know, I'm starting to get the hang of this "write whatever comes to my brain without any evidence" thing. I like it now.