Another Game-Over you lose card

[obsolete]

Buwahahaha, usually I don't post these shots, but since people keep asking to to see them this happend just now.

I thought I'd start a nice deity Churchill game this saturday afternoon. I spotted a hut close to my starting location, and right away it spawns FIVE warriors!

Not one...
not two...
not three...
not four...

FIVE!! WARRIORS

Nobody has a chance winning there.

But all is not lost, I had 2 gold hills in my fat cross and beelined after archery... I was playing very, very safe. I also had very isolated terrain, which was supposed to be very, very safe from barbs.

Like a good little boy, playing very safe, I beelined an archer and got that unit moving out again like a good little safe boy. And then I decided to be extra cautious, and even get another archer out. Now remember, I am protective here, so I am getting both CGI and Drill I.

Well, despite all these extra safety features... low and behold I get the breaking Vedic Araying uprising stack right next to my capital in 2520 BC.

When I say next to my capital, I do not mean nearby the capital, or nearby the culture. I mean... LITERALLY.. just 1 frieken tile between me and the uprising stack. Just ONE tile!!!

And even though I was being extra safe and had a super strong archer that was just ready to to pop, obviously that was not going to cut it vs a stack of Aryans.

Of course, the next turn I just cringed and hit end-turn (hoping for a miracle). Nope... capital fell, end of that. Thanks for wasting my time yet again Firaxis.

I just don't know... some people feel it's cheating turning off events, so I'm trying to keep them on so I don't feel guilty, but then you run into un-winnable situations like this.

I still gotta laugh at those self-proclaimed experts who insist that it's always the fault of the player for losing to Veds... Maybe I should hire one of them to tutor me, while they still know everything? Do I possibly have a major leak here???

At least they didn't hit me right after the first worker was out... so technically I did have a small chance in hell of defeating that stack.

 

[Valivator]

ouch, that hurts. i play with random events on because i like the randomness, although that particular event should definetly be toned down. 2 or maybe 3 archers. so its not a neccesarily game-over card like it is now.

 

[Udey1]

terrible luck.

You seem to run into those barbarian uprisings so often. For me I am strongly tempted to turn random events off when I get the slavery revolt in the capital. It only seems to hit when I start pounding the AI or make a really fine move. Then wouldnt you know it? my slaves are rebelling, oh and dare i risk the chance that it will solve itself? NOPE. One time it lasted for 7 turns..... 7 turns without your capital can turn a winning game into a losing one.

I myself have never had the uprising happen to me, It has just happened once, and they were towards one of the AI cities. To each his own random event bull****.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I HAVE permanently disabled events.

But note that to trigger this event yourself, you actually have to have archery. So, now it's up to you. Do you want to gamble on a strat resource, go ultra balls to wall spawn bust warriors, or tech archery and ironically get screwed because the V. Aryans took all your arrows?

 

[Rooftrellen]

I have never lost to this event (though I have had it a few times), but I am sure I play on a much lower level than you, as well.

I believe the biggest issue of the vedic random is that, if I am correct, it can happen as soon as random events are allowed to happen, when the AI's start with archery. (Edit: TMIT seems to have just corrected mymisinformation. I'd certainly trust him more than me!)

Sometimes things like that happen.

Oh well.

It doesn't make the whole system unfair, it just means sometimes you get so unlucky that you really just don't have a chance.

I once had a map where I started in isolation at the very south, the cross of my capital looked nice, and I had room for 10 more cities, consisting of about 40% tundra and 60% ice. The map generator isn't broken, its not unfair, its just that every now and then you get unlucky, just like random events.

Better luck next time, at least you weren't too far into the game.

 

[Dirk1302]

You know you have to turn these events off obs.I have no idea why people say turning them off is cheating, events off is by far the most balanced way to play the game.

A few of the most ridiculous ones are:

this one
+4 hammers for a coalplant
free GA when starting a war

And the annoying ones
buildings have been destroyed , always includes forge, this one happens a lot in my games
slave event but ok at least this one let's the player consider leaving slavery

This is all way out of proportion and possibly gamebreaking. Comparable to playing chess and suddenly that big hand out of the sky snatches a pawn or a knight off the board.

 

[TheLazyHase]

You know you have to turn these events off obs.I have no idea why people say turning them off is cheating, events off is by far the most balanced way to play the game.

I agree, it's not cheating. Nor removing barbarian or hut is cheating, and they are random too. But they are not exactly inbalancing factor, especially in SP. Civ4 is already a pretty random game anyway.

This is all way out of proportion and possibly gamebreaking. Comparable to playing chess and suddenly that big hand out of the sky snatches a pawn or a knight off the board.

It's out of proportion when you don't like to change your plan. Compared to some real life event, they are pretty mild. And all in all, it's more a case of "are you willing to have some random factor ?" than other thing, because making the best out of good event and minimizing the worst is simply part of the game.

 

[dirtyparrot]

I think that the HOF mod prevent these type of early barb events. You still can have your events, you just won't get surprised really early.

 

[z0wb13]

anyone that wants to change that stuff can go into the xml file and make it happen later, for instance by making masonry or monotheism a required tech.

or if you're like me, you can turn the tsunami event back on.

 

[6K Man]

I can't really articulate why I don't turn events off. I think for me, the entertainment/pleasant surprises they provide outweighs the annoyance from negative events. Obviously a game-ending negative event is pretty hard to balance out with the entertainment factor.

That one does sound like a no-matter-what-you-do-you're-screwed event, though, and is pretty hard to justify.

 

[whats a navy]

If everything was completely balanced though then the game would become boring. I go for random events but this one is more like Firaxis saying "start the game over please". This one really bugs me.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

I agree, it's not cheating. Nor removing barbarian or hut is cheating, and they are random too. But they are not exactly inbalancing factor, especially in SP. Civ4 is already a pretty random game anyway.

(emphasis added )

I agree with this sentiment, with the caveat I am adding at the bottom of this post. I enjoy playing with events on: there are already so many random factors thrown into the mix that generally the "wacky" nature of events seems to fit in imo, though this particular instance does indeed look like the sorry, game over event... lame.

anyone that wants to change that stuff can go into the xml file and make it happen later, for instance by making masonry or monotheism a required tech.

or if you're like me, you can turn the tsunami event back on.

I know that the PIG mod, which I use, removed those questionable barb events entirely. Doesn't the HOF mod prevent them as well?

 

[TheLazyHase]

I agree with this sentiment, with the caveat I am adding at the bottom of this post. I enjoy playing with events on: there are already so many random factors thrown into the mix that generally the "wacky" nature of events seems to fit in imo, though this particular instance does indeed look like the sorry, game over event... lame.

What I find lame is the first battle against barb. Even by stacking all your chance, you still have a 20-30% chance to loose your only scout / your defense trireme. All you need is a tiny string of bad luck to lose all unit and the game in the same move. It happen far more often than vedic aryan.

 

[naterator]

I know that the PIG mod, which I use, removed those questionable barb events entirely. Doesn't the HOF mod prevent them as well?

I Run BUFFY and just got hit with a stack of 6 Vedic Aryan Horse archers. It might delay them though, it was 340 BC.

 

[Dirk1302]

There were not many civ versions that had random events iirc. I think civ has enough randomness to prevent the game from being boring, at least the you can turn it off. Generally it isn't a matter of being able to cope, losing a forge is just annoying but it's improbably you lose the game that way.

The event obs is describing here means end of a game and so either a waste of time or a hack into wb to cut the units out but that's frowned upon some time too. Civ's a much better game without this sort of nonsense going on so disabling events is the way to go imo.

 

[TheWilltoAct]

What I find lame is the first battle against barb. Even by stacking all your chance, you still have a 20-30% chance to loose your only scout / your defense trireme. All you need is a tiny string of bad luck to lose all unit and the game in the same move. It happen far more often than vedic aryan.

Agreed, early naval combat pretty much sucks, as do early fights against animals.
I feel like a spokesman for PIG mod by now, but scouts are given more of a sizable bonus against animals to offset their woeful strength.

There were not many civ versions that had random events iirc. I think civ has enough randomness to prevent the game from being boring, at least the you can turn it off. Generally it isn't a matter of being able to cope, losing a forge is just annoying but it's improbably you lose the game that way.

The original Civilization had random events.
They were never "positive" for you, unless they struck your opponent. They could be avoided by building appropriate buildings.

 

[Dirk1302]

^The original civ was great, best version for me apart from civ4. I think events should have been implemented in civ4 that way too. I have no objections to events where you can build appropriate buildings against them just a i have no problems with normal barbs. Having said that, civ1 was unbalanced as hell. One time the babylonians built Apollo 1ad in a game where i thought i did pretty well.

 

[JTMacc99]

I like events, I like huts, I like barbs. I have no issues when I see a message that a distant civilization has been destroyed in 2000BC, so I have a hard time justifying doing a little World Builder hocus pocus when I am looking down the barrel of this particular event.

On the other hand, another civ falling to this event often is a negative thing for me (like when it allows Zara to expand to twice his normal size unchecked,) so I'm not above just dropping in a couple archers into my own city to weather the storm and then deleting the units after the Barb stack is dead.

 

[lymond]

I generally keep events on but the usually run heavily negative to me. For every one extra commerce in plot or the like, there's like three tornados or whatever. My most hated are those that destroy several buildings including usually a forge.

Question: Are the quests tied to the events engine? I've been curious but never tested it

 

[Silu]

Question: Are the quests tied to the events engine? I've been curious but never tested it

Yes, and they have their share of ones that are commonly seen as broken. Colosseum quest w/ SoZ springs into mind (gives a golden age). Runner-ups are Swordsman quest for CR and Musket quest for free Pinch.