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Another MP game??

Discussion in 'Multiplayer and LP's' started by Koshling, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    You need to understand something right off the bat. I don't have a game in front of me when I post. I have a display that says my city has 235% Defense, it Does Not Tell Me What the Bombard Defense is! So I say City Defense, whether right or wrong.

    And this is the core of what I've been *****ing about since April of 2014. Your system, and whoever else set it up before you, that You have piled on top off, Is Too Complicated and Too hidden.

    Set it how ever you want.


    JosEPh
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  2. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Rf next

    JosEPh
     
  3. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Well isn't that nice! And I'm the one that still "does not get it". Now that you don't have a cakewalk thru thru the Mayan park you squawk "Bug!" and now it's not! Yep I'm the one that doesn't get it alright. :rolleyes::cringe::thumbsdown::vomit:

    JosEPh :splat::run::wavey:
     
  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Walls mostly from what I can tell. I'd have to do the same research myself.

    I'm not sure where the bug option is. Easier to change the global and have us update that one file.

    If you had been saying that you could not damage the city defenses with bombard units then it would have been addressed. That has nothing to do with how high city defenses are. You've only ever complained about how high city defenses are and I feel there's little significance to that in the final analysis of how difficult a city is to capture.

    Bombard Defense, on the other hand, has a lot to do with how hard a city is to capture, especially once it hits 100% which is a world of impossible vs all other values below that being a world of possible.

    Also... I exposed the Bombard Defense to the Defense Help Hover, which means that it just takes overloading your foe with espionage to find out what they have in terms of Bombard Defense. It's not meant to be 'hidden' but one of those bits of knowledge that you must strive to achieve on your foe. A reward for high espionage. Furthermore, before my efforts, Bombard Defense was a completely hidden mechanism. Has been since Afforess introduced it in A New Dawn and I suspect it still is over there.

    You still don't. I'm quite glad that your city is more challenging this go around. 'Cakewalks' are boring.

    When I walked up next to it and hit it with a bombard from a bombard elephant and it didn't seem to reduce the city defense at all, I had to check the global to make sure bombard was going to be possible and finding the global at 100% I was worried that no bombardment was going to have any effect at all. What must have happened was that I didn't take well enough note of what the city defense amount was at before I hit it with the bombard because all bombard attacks did work (it took quite a few more than your previous cities, yes, which is a big reason for your survival for the round.) So your city has not reached that 100% potential yet.

    I'm also not complaining that collateral damage from direct unit attack doesn't work. I didn't realize that was broken but I've been noticing lately it didn't seem to be working and I verified it for sure in this last assault. It's probably thus broken on the core mod since it's never been brought to my attention. I'll have to debug it there. But it's adding a little more challenge here now so that's nice. If I was hoping for a cakewalk, I would be going out of my way to cry foul on the game rules for that. No way your city would have stood had collateral been working.
     
  5. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    JosEPh, I know you said that you do not have a game open when you post, but go back and load your last (or a prior) turn. When it is loaded, open up a city. Any city. Near the upper right hand corner, just to the right of the city's name, is a little rook symbol with the overall city defense rating next to it. Mouse over that symbol, and a pop up will happen that will show a lot of things, including the city's Bombard Defense. Unfortunately, it does not have a breakdown of how that number is achieved.

    The best (read: only) description of how this all works (perhaps worked, this post was years ago) that I have been able to find, is here:
    Production % and hammers overview
     
  6. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    A little outdated on some references there but a good explanation of how it works mathematically.

    Also from the v37 Player's Guide under the segment regarding the defense help hover which you pointed out how to see inside the city screen:
    Of course I didn't know at the time that there was a BUG setting for that which could override the global setting but that's good to know. And we're on a fileset that has that global capped at 100% which if not a problem now (which thankfully it isn't) should still be corrected before it becomes one and the player who has to find out the hard way isn't left being accused of simply wanting things to be easier on him.
     
  7. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    Got it. Odd that a google search did not turn that up. That entry helps with understanding how it works, at least in general. Adding a short example of the math involved could be useful for some players.
     
  8. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Ok, well I just added to it:

    Bombard Resistance: This is an incredibly potent value that comes from some defensive buildings and wonders. It is NOT the same as City Defense. It reduces the damage of bombard attacks that reduce the city defense and acts as a protective modifier against Ranged Assault attacks against units in the city. It is currently capped at a maximum of 70% because we've found that city defenses get too difficult to reduce if allowed to go over this point. Some adjustments to how this works are planned but for now, if you see you can get additional Bombard Resistance in your cities, it's worth a lot of protection to really reach out to get that benefit. (unless all your cities are already at the maximum 70%.)

    The way it works is to reduce the amount of Bombard Damage to your city's Defense % by a % amount equal to the resistance. Thus if a Bombard action would normally cause a reduction of 10% to your City Defense level, a 50% Bombard Resistance would reduce that hit down to just 5% of your Defense being damaged.


    Better? I'm not that great at wording the math.
     
  9. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    That looks good. Now, if rf can do his turn, we can get on with the game.
     
  10. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Think what you will.

    JosEPh
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Of course, I was referring to a different point which I don't feel you understood. While you appear to be finally grasping the difference between Bombard Defense and City Defense, you still don't seem to understand that I relish in challenge at war rather than being some pussy who wants it to be a steamroll. I plan to MAKE things a steamroll as best I can for obvious strategic reasoning, but the better the fight, the better the glory. But when the system doesn't allow the fight to take place at all, we have a problem we can all agree is an issue that needs correcting. That's all I was trying to say here.
     
  12. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Except you jumped the gun and cried "wolf" when there wasn't one even close by. Because you expected a steamroll. And I sure hope that "p" word was not pointed at me. Cause if it is, you've just lost my respect for you in this game.
     
  13. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Rf you are next.
     
  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    When I bombarded with the bombard elephant which could move and still be able to use the action, it didn't seem to reduce your defenses at all so yes, I wasn't sure it was an immediate problem now. Proved to be that it must've done some damage but I didn't take well enough note of what your city defense level was at before it bombarded. The report doesn't say what it WAS at, just what it's been reduced to, and I thought it had not reduced any. My bad there...

    But the Global is 100%. So whether it is a problem now or not, it WILL be. And that's what I want to bring up to correct before it does become a problem for any of us.

    Take a moment and read the statement again. There is no way that I can read it that is insinuating that I'm calling you a pussy. (P word? Squeamish much? It means Cat. Or in this case, 'weak-willed fearful crybaby'. So what if others have twisted it?) I'm saying I'M not the pussy you have been calling ME by accusing me of wanting an easier path to victory than I already have. Funny you should say you'd have lost respect for me if I was calling YOU that, when I'm employing the term in my reaction to what you've been accusing ME of. Unfairly, I might add. So yeah, your comments hit my pride a bit because they are patently false.

    Because I expected a steamroll? Are you kidding? You have/had over 60 some Mounted Infantry in that city. I've not yet been able to take a full count of all you have there because I can't see that far off the top of the page. I expected no steamroll there. But I DO expect to be able to at least command my units to attack the city. Pretty sure no matter which side of the fence you're on in this conflict that even you can agree that if I can't even tell a swordsman to make an attack, nor do I have a path to doing so without calling in units that haven't even been trained yet when I have over 100 units intended for the purpose of enabling said attack, that we would have an untenable bug in the game that no player would say is not important to resolve.

    My 'crying wolf' is a matter of pointing out that the problem, even if not manifest right now, can (and will inevitably) still exist according to current assets in use, and we need to agree upon a fix before it shows itself.

    RF: please take your turn.
     
  15. rightfuture

    rightfuture Emperor

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    Turn Done, Magnus up!
    I will keep an eye out for fastest turnover.

    I set up a way to check easier from my phone also, and I will try to respond if It will take a while. My daughter actually starts school tomorrow.

    I will try to check the turn at least 3 times a day.
    Installing Civ on my new laptop as well - so I can travel productive
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2017
  16. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    Turn done, Thunderbrd is up.
     
  17. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Wow... weak bro. You are ensuring the necessity of having to completely wipe you out as I will have no other way to settle your territory. I wasn't planning on that but I can adjust. Too bad you took out a religious holy city on that one. Don't get me wrong... I get it and it is being very effective at playing king maker. I guess if you're going down, you're going to take down the one who took you down in the process, eh? lol

    Hydro's up!
     
  18. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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  19. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    Taken my turn...back to Joseph...
     
  20. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    MagnusIlluminus next
     

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