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Another MP game??

Discussion in 'Multiplayer and LP's' started by Koshling, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    Come on rf, need you to take your turn in the next ~40 minutes, otherwise I won't be able to until evening.

    Edit: Right, well, I hope he can take his turn sometime in the next ~10 hours. I'll check back then.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  2. rightfuture

    rightfuture Emperor

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    Working on it right now

    Still working on better alerts. I will give you all my best email to alert me- and I will try to let people know if I will be late for any reason.
    Just learning to stay on top of it around my family.

    Turn Done. Magnus up
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  3. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    Well, I was going to take my turn, but I am running into an issue with something that another player has done, and I have to be certain that it was intentional before I proceed. Thus my turn will be slightly delayed.

    We apologize for the inconvenience.
     
  4. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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  5. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    Kinda messy ending things when when a player leaves and doesn't out right retire. But Oh the plans I had if only I could have mustered another Hundred Mounted Infantry and Ballista Elephants.

    But I'm sure you all will get it sorted out asap. :)

    JosEPh
     
  6. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Wait did you guys defeat Joe? LIke his whole empire, not just a city?
     
  7. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    After I took 3 of his cities and he self-sacked 2 more to keep me from having them, he's now decided to splt his empire in half and gift one half to Koshling and the other to Magnus. Doing whatever it takes to keep me from further benefitting from capturing his assets. It's an extremely early, but total, admission of defeat, yes.

    'you guys'... pfft.
     
  8. Koshling

    Koshling Vorlon

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    If everyone were to agree, I for one would be prepared to destroy all cities (and units) just gifted from Joseph, in return for an a cessation of all hostilities on this continent for some period (say 30 turns??). That way Magnus and I don't get this massive sudden benefit, which is a bit of a bummer for everyone else. We (all three of us remaining southern players) would get a large area to expand into, but that's similar to the hole that Whisperr left up north, so less unfair to Hydro/RF then the current de-facto state of affairs.
     
  9. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    Interesting thought Koshling. I'll have to consider that.

    Turn done, Thunderbrd is up.

    Edit: I've thought about it a bit, and I'm concerned that 30 turns would not be long enough to get things working well enough. Now, 300 turns would be worth it. Even ~150 might be worth it, for example until turn 600.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  10. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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    Sorry I did not mean any disrespect. I just was not sure what happened.

    Sorry Joe for not getting to fight you directly, but it was fun when you played for America and the other MP game.
     
  11. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    From my perspective, that would be cause for further hostilities. This has been his way to deny me what I meant to capture and I refuse to allow it to work as planned. I'm not going to agree to a sudden shift in strategy to a land grab race instead. There are fantastically powerful wonders and holy cities for grabs here.

    I didn't figure you did. I was being playful. But c'mon... give credit where it's due. Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's! Despite his early surrender and spiteful acts of self-destruction, Joe's been a cunning opponent.
     
  12. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    What "fantastically powerful" Wonders? I only got a couple of 'meh' Wonders. The one Holy City I received does have two religions, but ones that have really not spread very much. In any event, they are not really "up for grabs" either.

    Just in case you did not notice earlier, your turn is up Thunderbrd. I suppose you may have been posting from work though.
     
  13. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Turn taken. Hydro is up!

    I'm strongly considering an option that includes 3 new game rules (no capitulation by proxy):
    1) cities may not be traded nor given to a player that you are not at war with unless you are not at war.
    and
    2) Units may not be gifted out while at war but may be accepted.
    and
    3) cities may not be voluntarily destroyed while you are at war.

    That this would NEVER happen in a non-PVP game makes this scenario smack of unsportsmanship. A player should be required to always play to their own best interests to WIN, whether possible or not. Otherwise acceptance of defeat, in any kind of sportsmanly conflict played honorably, is a surrender to the opponent you are being defeated by. However, in this situation, we see that Joseph's primary goal changed from 'win the game' to 'deny a victory for the player that APPEARS to be the one responsible for my defeat'. I can't BLAME him for that, but for MP games in the future to be kept from devolving into this kind of bitterness, where a victor shall be made to lose for his success, we may need such an option to keep it from being a valid strategy to undermine fair play. I could simply decide which of my 2 rivals should win now if I wished. And with this sort of display being shown me, I must wonder why I shouldn't.

    I say APPEARS in caps because, had I worked alone to achieve an upper hand, it would not sting so much to know that accomplices have been the ones most rewarded simply because they could manage to project a two-faced front of neutrality and innocence by cowardly avoiding any conflict of their own. The weight of your defeat, Joseph, is as much on the shoulders of those you granted benefit to as I. All I have been was the one whom was disadvantaged to the point that he had nothing left to do but to become a spearhead to scratch for his own slim chance of survival in the long term.

    That's fine. We'll see how honest negotiations have been up to now. If history proves anything, the word of the world leaders in play here will be subjective to whim.
     
  14. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    The one that really stood out just before I declared war as a goal prize to obtain was the one that makes Judaism worth grabbing for at all, the Arc of the Covenant.

    Then of course controlling holy cities in and of themselves is a strong percentage of the potential power to be had. My entire strategy was to let him be distracted in tech progress and temple construction costs by getting those religions, knowing when he did they would someday be mine. Denying me them is enough to spark such rage I'm well prepared to go down with my own ship if continued hostilities backfires against me. Whether a religion is spread much or not is inconsequential considering one must merely add the term 'yet' after that. I allowed Koshling so many religions purely because I was going to even the score with Joseph's. His move has caused many choices I've made to backfire and I will not accept an early defeat and spiral into obscurity over any reluctance to use the armies I have.

    I'm sure you don't feel they are. However, although I have not yet declared it officially, I completely accept your willingness to receive his cities, however unearned they may be, as an act of war. I shall repeat to you what I said recently to Joseph... the more I am denied, the more I must take.

    Yeah, until recently.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  15. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    It is hilarious how, in one paragraph you say that a player should be required to play to win to the best of their ability, but in the next paragraph you lamblast other players for playing to win to the best of their ability. Make up your mind, good sir.

    Also, you cannot legislate other people to have your personal play-style. JosEPh is an adult, and thus can - and has - made his own choices. Just because they are choices that you would not personally have made does not make them illegal choices. Admittedly, I don't tend to play that way either, but I respect his right to play as he wants.

    Just because a player aids you in a thing, does not make them your vassal. Similarly, just because a player aids your enemy - and benefits from it - does not make them your enemy. For the record, neither Koshling (that I know of) nor I asked JosEPh to divide his holdings between us. As far as I can tell, he was getting tired of being beaten on and had the feeling that you were not going to stop attacking him until he was removed from the game. I tried to give him options that could have kept him in the game to a degree, but he was not interested. He should have taken the issue up with you. Instead, he did what he did.


    Sorry, there is no "Ark of the Covenant" in the list of Wonders in the "Top 5 cities / Wonders" page. Thus it was either destroyed in a razed city, or not built as yet. As far as I can tell from the Sevopedia, JosEPh should have met the requirements long ago, and as it is not available to be built (yes, I reloaded my turn and checked) currently, I am guessing it was destroyed. If you want to be mad at someone for that, your only logical target is JosEPh. Taking that out on either Koshling or myself in game is illogical and dishonorable.


    Sorry, you have no right to decide what is and is not earned. Only JosEPh had that right for his own cities. Do also remember that just because you desire a thing, does not mean that you deserve it, nor that you have a right to have it. As the famous saying goes: "No plan survives contact with the enemy."

    You said: "... and I will not accept an early defeat and spiral into obscurity ..." Despite JosEPh's odd decision, you have hardly been dealt a defeat. You have gained some territory and good cities. Perhaps not as much as you wanted, but a good amount. Probably enough to keep you relevant. Through JosEPh's odd decision, I have been aided to the point where I have a chance - not a guarantee by any means, but a chance - to remain relevant as well. Koshling remains well in the lead.

    Was I "cowardly" by not declaring war on you directly? Hell yes! Before his gifts, my military ratio towards you was 0.2. One fifth. Seriously, would you ever, ever, declare war against any Civ (even an AI) with that low of a ratio? No, no sane person would. Nor would I. I've been kicking myself for letting it get that low at all.

    Whee, that is getting long. I'll stop there I think.
     
  16. Thunderbrd

    Thunderbrd C2C War Dog

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    Oh, I don't blame you for taking his cities and trying to capture a remarkably unusual opportunity to suddenly catch up. But I promise consequences will be had for enabling my enemy to play such a devious strategy against me.

    I'm not resenting him, just feeling like there was a decided lack of honor in it all. One player here decided to confer before accepting the deal he offered. One did not. It is my opinion that gains earned by war are the most rightfully earned gains of all. Denying your foe the opportunity to benefit from victory over you is as childish a move as one can make and if I advocate for the game to provide an option that establishes rules that would deny a player that opportunity, it is because I feel the game takes on a less gentlemanly appeal without it. Again, the same reason I loathe vassalage as an option to begin with. I'm not bitter with Joseph... just disappointed in what I feel was a dishonorable move, multiple dishonorable moves tbh. It's one thing to fade from battle and fall back... another to slaughter all your citizens and ruin your achievements to keep your foe from benefiting from them.

    Maybe he DID destroy the city that wonder was built in but it was the one just two or three plots to the west of his capital.

    You willingly took my targets as your own lands. I did not give my consent to you to do this. You thus aided my enemy and I disagree - this makes you my enemy. When the Taliban aided Al-Qaida, they did indeed immediately become marked as enemies of the US. I can choose to forgive, which in Koshling's case I do because he conferred with me prior to making the decision to accept the cities. You, however, took the risk that this would somehow be acceptable to me without conference. You've cast your lot.

    Really? When a nation at war is defeated and admits defeat they don't enter into a treaty thereafter that concedes to the demands of the victor? I have EVERY right to determine what is and is not earned and as you have taken part in denying me that right, I have no choice but to continue my war with him with the one who took his cities out from under my grasp. We shall see if you can defend them any better than he could.

    That is until I have earned it by right of might and by all means I have shown that might and thus the right. If you contest that fact, then quite logically, although I intended no original hostilities towards you, at this time such contest for those cities transfers to you to manage.

    And those who hadn't prepared to earn their gains are those who have earned triple the gains as I have? No... fairness has been thwarted here.

    And it is at least my intent that you shall now continue to kick yourself for accepting such an unfair arrangement, particularly without my counsel.
     
  17. Hydromancerx

    Hydromancerx C2C Modder

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  18. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    :lol: Where is the Blarney Stone smilie.:lmao:

    :deal:
    :borg:
    :popcorn:

    JosEPh
     
  19. MagnusIlluminus

    MagnusIlluminus Emperor

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    The only thing that I am at all 'sorry' for is the fact that you are so delusional that you think that you - and you alone - are allowed to decide the entire course of the game.

    Now, whose turn is it and can we get on with it please?

    Edit: The turnlist file is confusing on this issue. There are * next to both Hydro and Koshling. Whoever is up, get to it.
     
  20. JosEPh_II

    JosEPh_II TBS WarLord

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    koshling is next. But he won't be home from work until after 6pm CST there abouts.

    If ever in doubt after you update or at any other time just select Show Log from the Update Screen or by selecting TortoiseSVN and getting the List for it. Show Log is at the top of that list .With Show log you will see who did the last commit. Turn list gets screwed up a lot for grown ups playing with it. ;)

    JosEPh
     

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