Discussion in 'Multiplayer and LP's' started by Koshling, Dec 28, 2012.
Something I'm not aware about, when was it last improved by who?
I have a 2 year old sick daughter and barely off being sick myself.
I tried to take my turn on Saturday and all the building queues were completely filled with poor choices..
This means someone literally added them..
Obviously I have to adjust them and see what other damage has been done.
I am not deflecting or avoiding to take my turn in the least.
I simply did not have time to undo everything and take my turn.
Yes I had a friend whose wife had a birthday party nearby. My wife and my daughter are sick with a virus.
I will have to look at and undo any changes made - which took more time than I had at the moment.
This is what is keeping me from taking my turn quickly - not any other issues or desires on one of your parts.
I am currently watching my 2 year old daughter and was waiting till the next steam sale to but civ iv on my laptop.
I get that some of you want to just blow me off - but I'm not treating any of you like that.
If you own a physical copy of civ IV complete, you could try using the cd key on the box to redeem the game on steam. That's what I did.
Also, try not to take their impatiance personal, because it really isn't on their part. My best wishes goes to you and your daughter, good luck.
Now that is a great thought - thank you Toffer..
I understand their impatience - I don't appreciate the negative conversation about my intentions without making a reasonable attempt to communicate..
They have no idea what I am dealing with without talking with me.
Queues fixed. Turn Done, Magnus up
LunarMongosse himself iirc, since we started this game in 2012. I believe we incorporated his PM2 during this 4 year span into C2C.
LM's 4.2 was released recently and it has his latest PM map in it. PM 3.3 if I saw it right when I started a new 4.2 game today.
Rf do you read this thread before you take your turn? If you do you would have more information at your disposal.
Sorry to hear baby is fighting this crud too. My 10 yr grandson brought it to our house last week end. Been fighting it all week and so too is the Mrs. now.
Ah, didn't realize this MP game had been going on for so long. Thought perhaps I had missed something a bit more recent in the map script area.
TBH, I have invested a lot of thought on that game that I wouldn't like to simply throw away. If there is a movement to try to revive that game I'm strongly supporting it. But if you guys prefer to start a new one, then I can at least show you how it would have been If I had been playing with you since turn 0, instead of almost in turn 200, which is a small relief to all my thoughts thrown away.
Says the guy with a big island all to himself. I think I'd be even more into that game if I started in your spot, instead of bordering Vokarya, Whisperr and what was once Joseph (Canada).
Sadly it seems I won't have the posibility to challenge your nation there. I was running pretty fast to not let you, the top player, get a strong lead over me. I started ranking around 5th - 6th and now I can definetly say I'm ranking 3rd - 4th. I even reached your military size, but I presumed Vokarya would have to accept my stack outside his city. He didn't , so I kept being second strongest until now.
I had plans to help you there. I'm not sure I'd be able to get to you before Koshling and/or Tbrd decided to get you off the map, but helping the enemy of your rival is a strategy I'm very fond of . It could've been to help both you and Tbrd because with that skeleton army Tbrd had, maybe he would side with you against Koshling and use you as buffer so to not suffer from the war.
Old World is an option I quite like, but I can live without it. However, increasing the map size to Gigantic could be a solution as well? Gigantic with Old World makes such a huge Old World that 10 players can start really far away from each other. I did such a game in Single Player and I could reach 30 cities without ever getting near the border of a starting nation, and I wasn't even a 5th of my explored map.
I'm not sure how it's now, but Revolution has always been my favorite aspect of CIV since I found Legends of Revolution. It's supposed to make overexpansion harder, and can be used against other nations by letting new nations break off from them. Also, by playing C2C I learned that revolution makes overpopulation harder as well, because banditry if unchecked leads to revolution, and you can't compare the hundreds of gold that you lose to banditry to the thousands you lose to bribery because the crime rates in your city are so high they make it rebel even if you have a 30-city sized nation with no issue of rebellion anywhere else whatsoever.
These are the 2 reasons I believe I can't play without this option: New Civs emerging from an old Civ because of domestic mismanagement, and making Overexpansion (and overpopulation in C2C) harder.
If we drop that game and start a new one, I'm eager to learn all of these new stuff, with the exception of options that only facilitate the game like Unlimited Wonders (I'd guess Unlimited XP is similar). But as I was doing back in the Massive MP game with Unlimited Wonders, I won't complain to use this type of option to my advantage, so to break the game and show that it shouldn't be used ever .
IMO, you weren't breaking the game... you were simply taking advantage of the differing strategic structure that option provides for. I was thrilled with that game once you reminded me that Unlimited Wonders was on... I had been so reticent to build any wonders until then. You got the jump on me on so many simply because I thought the option was off! (As it is here.)
@All: Maybe we should start 2 different games and make one more the 'restricted' and 'original play style' side of the options spectrum while the other is more the cutting edge, wide open and unrestricted side of the options spectrum? This way we can really test our abilities to adapt to whatever game rules happen to be in play? I could draft up a suggested set of options for one side vs the other.
I'd be a little reluctant with any of them having revolutions right now simply because I don't think anyone has ensured that revolutions is working well at the moment and there have been reports that it's too aggressive at the moment still.
With a few games going we wouldn't be quite so upset when one of them slows a bit on a player's turn.
I think this speed, btw, has been perfect. The mapsize probably should have been a step higher. I've also been finding that Planet_Generator_0_68 is the only map that seems to be giving a good opportunity to the majority of players at gamestart, and for an MP game to be as fair as possible, this is probably the more important element than terrain realism.
I'd suggest 2 games. The first would be a Progressive C2C game. The second a Conservative C2C game.
City Flipping After Conquest
No Revolutions (up for some debate here)
No Barb Civs (again open to debate)
Great Commanders (alternative suggestion below)
Advanced Espionage (alternative suggestion below)
Realistic Culture Spread
No City Limits from Civics
Developing Leaders (alternative suggestion below)
Start Without Positive Traits (alternative suggestion below)
Teleport Hunting Awards (alternative suggestion below)
City Starts with 1 Tile
No City Razing
No City Flipping from Culture
Require Complete Kills
No Random Events
No Tech Diffusion
Start as Minors
High to Low
Culturally Linked Starts
Religious Decay (please dear god never make me play with this again!)
Barbs Always Raze
No Fixed Borders
No Negative Traits
Upscaled Building and Unit Costs
Minimum City Border
Size matters uncut
Peace Among NPCs
Progressive VS Conservative
No Tech Trading: yes/no
No Tech Brokering: yes/no
No Vassal States: yes/no
Surround and Destroy: yes/no
Unlimited Wonders: yes/no
No Zones of Control: no/yes
Great Commanders (alternative to all yes): yes/no
Larger Cities without Metro Admin: yes/no
Advanced Espionage (alternative to all yes): yes/no
Advanced Nukes: yes/no
Divine Prophets: yes/no
Infinite XP: yes/no
Unlimited National Units: yes/no
Developing Leaders (alternative to all yes): yes/no
Start without Positive Traits (alternative to all yes and dependant on Developing Leaders): yes/no
No Nukes: no/yes
Religious Disabling: no/yes
All Combat Mods (except Size matters uncut): yes/no
More Rivers and More Resources: yes/no
Assigned Specialists XP: yes/no
More XP to level: no/yes
Animals Stay Out: no/yes
Reckless Animals: no/yes
Realistic Siege: yes/no
Vanilla Combat Engine: no/yes
Teleport Hunting Awards (Alternative to all yes): yes/no
I as thinking about the history of our game and how rightfuture has been slow taking his turns. Back when i first declared war on him i was going to try for a quick victory by taking him out when he was small and weak so we could not have him have to take turns anymore. But then he complained and then Mexico came in and declared war with me. Thus causing me to fight a 2 front war. Which i could not win. So I proposed peace to both nations and they accepted. Then during "peace" i attempted to to weaken Mexico though bandits so they would not be strong enough to go to war again with me. Since I lacked copper for metal troops. Then Mexico resigned and now AI Mexico is at war with me. While currently America is at peace with me. So far things have gone well with the war against AI Mexico. But its too bad things ended up like this. I would have much preferred to fight America, then after the war recover and then fight Mexico as a player with a level playing field where it could have been metal vs metal and Human vs Human.
I still have a long way to go if I want to eventually take on the southern nations since I am very behind. As for America he ended up being saved (for now). Who knows he might end up winning end to the stronger nations fighting each other. In short Mexico saved America by declaring war on me. And as a result causes the whole turn cycle to be slowed down.
I'm ok with most of this (and I'd play in both). My only points of disagreement are:
1) Why have 'city starts with 1 tile'? Let alone in both games? Maybe I am misunderstanding what this means.
2) I feel 'teleport hunting rewards' is a cop-out. I wouldn't want to see it on in both games
Figured we'd have a few points brought up.
This is Joe's new option that makes cities start with only its own tile as culturally owned. It has to grow culture to expand it's cultural reach, even into adjacent tiles. I would have suggested to not have it on Progressive and to have it on Conservative, purely because I know he prefers Conservative and prefers this option, but then again I also figured I'd show willingness to play with it on in Progressive as well. I'm... fairly neutral to this option personally.
I admit I advocate its use primarily because it's horrible for the AI to not use it but it's also just... really annoying. But it's up for debate.
@rf: Poor choices? Seriously? You had a city with 14 that was building the Carnival. I don't recall how far into it it was, but it had 15 turns remaining. That is 15 turns in which more could be built so as to build other things quicker and have time left to build other buildings that would have given more than the Carnival was going to give at that point. [So I fixed that.] Also, none of your cities had a proper build queue. [Fixed that too.] Each one only had one thing being built at a time, and that is just plain the wrong way to do things in this game. That is not a matter of gaming preference either. It is fact because of two words: Multiple Production. This is a C2C game modifier that allows a city to produce more than one thing each turn when there is sufficient AND when there are more things in the build queue. Not utilizing this has stunted the growth of your cities and your nation. But you have a point. If I am going to do your turns for you now and then, I should at least do things your way - badly. Thus I will do that from now on. If you don't like that thought, perhaps that will give you further incentive to play your turns promptly.
True, I don't really know what is going on in your life. At the risk of sounding harsh, I don't really care either. You made a commitment to make your turn within 24 hours of it coming up. You made a commitment to check to see if your turn was up several times each day. You have not been doing either. Thus I am no longer willing to allow your inability (to follow through) to needlessly delay the game anymore. I have been always giving you at least 24 hours in which to do your turn, and I will continue to do so, but not much longer than that anymore. You say that you are not trying to blow us off, but your actions (or rather, inaction at taking your turn promptly) say otherwise.
In addition, the savegame file that you posted is broken. Instead of loading into my turn, it only goes to the screen that allows loading games [IE: Single Player, Multiplayer; Load a Mod; etc] Also, the file is only 725kb whereas the file for last turn was 4168kb. Hopefully this is not an intentional attempt to sabotage the game. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I'll give you 12 hours (from when this posts) to fix the error, or I revert back to your turn and play that. This time will also allow others to confirm this.
While I will comment on possible selections for new game(s), perhaps these belong in a new thread?
I agree that a new game should be at least one mapsize larger than the current games. Gigantic might be pushing things a bit though. Huge or Giant should be sufficient. Also, some of the map generators allow for even more choices in size.
I agree with most of the "Both Yes" list, except for possibly the Developing Leaders and Start Without Positive Traits. The Progressive should have those on. The Conservative might be simpler without them. Possibly. Not sure. I also have reservations about the "single tile" option, but it could be interesting.
Personally, I do prefer to have "Teleport Hunting Rewards" on. I have played a game with it off, and it required a different approach than I generally prefer, but it was interesting in its own way as well.
I also agree the Revolutions should be off (or that "No Revolutions" should be on) for both games. Again, I have played with it on and it does add a level of complexity, but for multiplayer it just might be too much.
As to other options to be on or off, perhaps we need new voting form(s) like we used for the current games?
Did you forget to do this? Replace your "old" Assets folder with the "new" Assets folder from the SVN? You Must read this Thread to keep up with ongoing events and changes to this game.
And Please, read Magnus' reply to you, even if you don't like it. I tried to point that out to you in our PM's, Multiple Production vs selecting 1 build item per city build que. Did you actually take time to read what I posted to you? Especially after you asked for help and suggestions?
None of these work well in a Pbem game. Especially one that has No AI empires. Gigantic is also unrealistic for a "timely" Pbem game. The current games are on Large Map and Epic speed (2000 turns). And it's taken 4 years to get this far. Really need to scrap the "old SP gotta have it this way" ways for a Pbem game.
And your 2 reasons here are invalid for a Pbem as well.
Plus (not being rude here but considering age and lifestyles) will you be capable of playing for X number of years in a timely and consistent way?
@Spirictum: All of the reasons that you list for liking Revolutions are reasons that I dislike it. Suddenly having some of my cities split off into an invariably hostile mini-nation despite keeping them deliriously happy and even bribing them once is not something I consider fun.
Also, as JosEPh alluded to, you have had episodes where you disappeared for days or weeks at a time with no warning. That would be unacceptable in one of these new games. Can you guarantee that it will not happen again? Well, as much as anyone can guarantee such a thing. If you can, then great. If not, well...
Right, no post from rf as yet, so reverting and playing. I was actually hoping he would prove me wrong and actually fix the issue this morning. Ah well.
Turns done, Thunderbrd is up.
You wouldn't get a reply from Rf until evening time anyway Magnus. He never replies in the morning.
I'm thinking of starting a New Thread for what "I think" would make a decent Conservative C2C Pbem game. Not sure I agree with a lot of T-brd's suggestions.
@RF: It'll be a bit before I can take my turn today... I'm sure if you take your turn, Magnus won't mind replaying his.
I was trying to suggest to please you. I'd be interested to see what you'd prefer.
If rf can do it today, sure.
That would probably be a good idea JosEPh.
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