Another OCC victory

[TimTheEnchanter]

Completed my 3rd OCC game this past weekend, and this time I actually tried to keep a log. It's not 100% complete (particularly, I forgot to record a number of improvements. E.g., I don’t see bank, stock exch, or university) but it's got quite a bit of stuff on there. I didn't record creation of food caravan/freights because there’s just too many. The site was good with lots of rivers, Whale, Fish and I mined for Rivered Silk and Rivered Pheasant. Had 3 ocean squares but no port access. I ended up transforming two of the mountains into hills late in the game.

This was my first OCC where another civ surrounded me and overlapped my city squares. Contrary to what I told Duke o’ York on his OCC thread just the other day, diplomacy was definitely not enough to hold them off as I was at war (or a very tense peace) with England for much of the late game. I built a bunch of forts on my defensive terrain to keep them at bay. I was not able to gain an alliance with ANY civ at ANY time. You gotta love MGE!

Despite the war, I improved my previous landing by 3 years (1936) so I am somewhat pleased. However, I still have a lot of room for improvement in my game. I should have built a number of improvements earlier. I’m still not comfortable with the Early Republic/No Monarchy approach. I need to work on the tech and improvements path for that. I need to get much better about talking to the AI. I also need to gift more techs (I'm always afraid to give Astronomy & Medicine before I build CO and ST, then after that I just get lazy). I really need to get my trade routes out sooner too - they are a huge boost when they are created.

One thing I learned was the value of bribing units. They cost a bit more than rushbuilding units, but I don't waste a production turn on them (more freights) and as long as you make sure they are NONEs they don't cost support. NONE Engineers are awesome - they are what allowed me to transform the mountains for extra food and sheilds. I couldn't have done that and fought pollution at the same time without the ones I bribed. The thing I don't know, is bribing a unit from someone you are at peace/allied with a declaration of war? I was afraid to try it unless I was already at war.

Log next

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

The adventures of BillyBob of the Rednecks
Small Map, Deity, Raging, 7 Civs
No Starting Techs

bc4000-Hut chariot
3950-Hut chariot
3850-Podunk founded: 8 rivers, whale, fish, expect 2 hidden specials on rivers, 4 mountains
3600-Alphabet
3500-hut 50g
3200-Code of Laws
3000-English, Peace, give Code, no alliance
2400-English mapmaking (No scribes...)
2300-Defeat barb archer
2250-Library, Begin Colossus
-defeat barb chariot, chariot->veteran
2100-Chinese horse (peace), give Writing, don't want anything else, no ally
2000-Literacy
-English Exchange Map for Bronze (also have horse and WC), Give Writing, no ally
1800-vet Chariot whacked by barb chariot
1600-Find Heliopolis (can’t get there because of zoc w/ Chinese guy)
1550-Republic learned
1500-Finally meet Egypt, they demand Literacy, Peace, give Republic, Map, no Ally
-Chinese demand 100 gold, I say no, War!
1450-Republic Government!
1300-Hut (cer Bur)
1200-Size 4 (disorder)/lux 40% (dang, I should have built a temple before colossus)
1150-Currency
1150-Chinese -demand I cancel peace with Egypt (no), then they demand 100g (no I need that for colossus) still war
925-Hut (horseback riding)
875-Buy rest of Colossus
850-Colossus done, Trade
775-Size 5 - (disorder) elvis, Hut north of Egyptians (legion)
675-Egypt gets philosophy, wastes it on polytheism
-Mysticism
625-Temple, elvis sacked, tax 1/5/4 (welove)
-English -> Republic,Trade,Mysticism,Literacy,
-Egypt Trade
-Egypt begin Pyramid
600-Welove starts
575-size 6 increase tax to1/4/5
550-Size 7
525-oops welove ended early, tax: 1/6/3
500-Masonry
350-Math
325-Size 8, Egypt declares war!?
300-Egypt kills exploring legion
200-Astronomy
-Russians,Demand Republic, Peace,Give Mysticism, Writing, No ally.
75-Egypt – pyramids
ad 1-Construction
20-Marketplace
40-English Demand math, give masonry,
160-Chinese – Banking
-Philosophy
180-Egypt approaches chariot, demands astronomy (no- I need to build Cope's and Shakes).
-Egypt triggers hut which unleashes Barbs who kill my Chariot! All my non-units are now dead!
320-Medicine
340-English: Feudalism
400-Egyptians begin Shakespeare's theater
480-Shakespeare's Theatre (built this ahead of CO because Egypt is building it)! - Egypt switches to Marco Polo
560-Warrior code
580-Egypt abandons MP
660-English Demand philosophy
800-Iron working
880-Copernicus' Observatory!
960-Capture barb leader - vet warrior
-Aquaduct
980-Discover Bridge Building
1000-English demand Iron working, give Astronomy, Medicine
1020-Welove starts
1060-size 12(stop welove)
1140-Banking
1240-University
1340-Theory of Gravity
1400-Beijing: KRC
-Egyptians nearly complete Marco Polo
1460-Wheel
-Chinese demand Astronomy, Cease fire, gift ->Theory of gravity, peace, ally only if war against English
1530-Engineering
1570-Diplomat, Sanitation
-English discover Chemistry
1640-Sewer, We Love starts
1660-Discover Democracy, Democracy government!
1700?-Wool to Nottingham (no demand) 37 gold 8 arrows
1710-Chemistry
-Wine to Nottingham (no demand) 40 gold
1720-Welove ends size 19
1730-Gunpowder
1750-Explosives
1752-English demand gunpowder, gift banking, sanitation, but still no ally! Bastards!
-Beijing: Leo's
-York: GL
1754-Economics
-Gold to Nottingham (no demand) 37
1756-English demand explosives, but then not willing to trade for any techs!
-Egypt - demands invention, also won't trade Techs
1758-Pottery
1762-Engineer, Metallurgy
1766-Since Nottingham is so close (overlaps with two of our cells - fish and mined hill) and English aren't playing nice, we build Walls just in case.
-Somewhere a few turns ago (evidently forgot to write it down) we built a Musketeer as well.
-Conscription
1770-Seafaring
1774-Navigation
-St. Petersburg: Lighthouse
1778-Physics
1784-Magnetism
1790-Engineer, Steam engine
1792-Chinese, Demand Navigation, Cease fire, Give Steam engine, Peace,no ally (want us to declare war on russians)
1796-Railroad
1802-Electricity
1808-Refrigeration
-Thebes: Adam Smith Trading Co.
1814-Industrialization
1816-Supermarket
1820-Atomic Theory
1822-Factory
-tax 2/6/2 (Start growing again)
1824-dip, celebration
-Exploring Dip runs into English crusader, who demands 950 gold! (~90% of our funds!). We say no, they say War
1826-English go to monarchy
-Discover Corporation
-Riflemen
1828-Dip bribes English Engineer (None) for 392g
1830-Riflemen , Kill English Caravan
1832-Diplomat, Steel
-Rifleman kills English Cannon - vet!
1834-Diplomat
-Bribe another none Engineer (392)
-English: Cannon and knight attack, both defeated by our riflemen
1838-Refining
1842-End we love (Size
-First pollution
-Beijing: Magellan
1844-Combustion
1846-Rifleman holds off English Musket
1848-Automobile
1851-Mass production
-Egypt - demand industrialization, they wont exchange tech, I gift Sanitation, Physics, Cordial - exchange democracy for Monarchy, OOPS I took Feudalism! Still no ally.
-English railroad (begin Darwin)
-pollution again
-Superhighways
-English: demand Industrialization - sure, want cease fire OK
1853-Monarchy
1854-Power Plant (can't believe I forgot that earlier - got distracted by war with english) finally get 1 turn freights
-Find Minsk Russians: I gift Conscription, railroad No ally without war with Egypt
-diplomat expelled from russia
1855-Gems Freight
-Chivalry
-Gems to Nottingham 270g (demand)
1857-Leadership
-English democracy from egypt
-English say leave overlapping square with nottingham (even though we are only at cease fire, not peace) or they will send armies
1858-English get Theory of Gravity from Egypt
-Knights, Cannon, Crusader approach from Nottingham area. Another Knight is getting antsy SE of Podunk I smell a war coming.
1859-I talk to English they want 600 gold (Again about 90%). Uh, no. They declare War. Surprise!
-Pay 190 for None Cannon, it comes into our fort
-Rifleman kills Knight to SE (Vet!), Rifleman kills knight toward nottingham.(Vet!)
1860-English Cannon approaches SE
-Nuclear Fission
-Rifleman
-Kill Cannon
1861-Rifleman holds off crusader
-384 gold for another None engineer
1862-Tactics
1863-None cannon for 194
-English Magenetism - Start Suffrage
-Moscow: Darwin
1864-Electronics
-English and Chinese cancel peace.
-English Crusader dies attacking rifleman. Barbs (dragoons) surround Hastings - I am tempted to buy one of those as well, but don't.
1866-Machine Tools
-Gems to Nottingham 264g (demand)
1867-One dip bribes 2 Barb Dragoons (none) N of Nottingham for 102 each
1868-Mobile Warfare
1869-English get conscription from Chinese (peace)
-Dragoons kill cannon
1870-Miniaturization
1872-Armor (disband musket)
-Computers
1873-Research Lab
1874-Robotics
1876-Flight cancels Colossus
1879-Russians amphibious warfare
-Manufacturing plant
-Nuclear power
1880-Dip goes wandering - English want to talk,They want a cease fire! We accept. They offer peace, but we decline for fear that they order us out of Nottingham/hastings squares. We have sufficient defenses to hold them off now.
-ARRGH Senate overrules and accepts peace. They wont ally.
1881-Laser
1883-Giza UN
1884-Withdraw troops or cancel Peace treaty. We withdraw from forts for peace
-Radio
1885-Withdraw again
1886-and again
1887-and again
-Advanced Flight
1888-Withdraw again. I am using Settlers and Dips to hold forts to prevent occupation by English when expelled
1890-and again
-Communism
1893-Rocketry
1894-Nanking SoL
1896-Space Flight!
1897-English develop Fundamentalism
-English come to chat; they want advanced Flight (in exchange for theology!) NO!
-English diplomat sneaks in between my forts and takes Space Flight (Yeah, they got that one just by chance!!! )
-Asked if we want to use this as a reason to declare war, we say yes.
-Apollo
1898-Structural (S1)
-Pay 350 for None Alpine unit, Rifleman defeats Cannon (Vet!)
-English Cavalry defeated by Riflemen
-English want to talk, I say no, Senate signs peace treaty. (!!!!)
1899-s2
-Plastics
-Coventry, Nottingham build structurals !!!
1900-s3
-Shanghai Structural1
-english s3
1901-s4
-Chinese s2
-English s4
1902-S5
-Espionage
-English s5
1903-S6
-English s6
1904-s7
-English Bach
-English s7-10
1905-Superconductor
-S8
-Egypt s1,2
-English s11-13
1906-s9
-Chinese s4
-Egypt s3
-English s14,15
1907-s10
-Mao wants to talk: war with ruskies for 400 gold and monotheism. No.
-English s 16,17
1908-s11
-egypt s4-6
1909-s12
-egypt s7
-English s18
1910-s13
-english s19
1911-s14
-Combined Arms
-Chinese s5
-English S20
1912-s15
-English s21
1913-Module (m1) habitation
-English get plastics from egypt!!!
1914-M2 (solar)
-Stealth
-tax set 100/0/0
1915-m3(LS)
-Egypt c1
1916-c1 fuel1
-egypt c2
1917-c2 prop1
-English get Auto from egypt
-china s6,7
1918-C3 fuel2
-English atomic theory
1919-C4 Prop2
1920-c5 fuel3
1921-c6 prop3 LAUNCH 15-3-3-1-1-1(Fusion - 15 years) arrive 1936
1922-SDI
1923-Stealth fighter
1924-Armor
-Sneak attack by english! Held off by riflemen
1925-Armor
-Bribe Marine for 252 (none) fortify him with the dip on the mountain outside Nottingham. This will be a great place to stack bombers attacking Nottingham in case they build fighters.
1926-Stealth Bomber -- hits nottingham alpines
-Russians and english cancel peace
1927-2nd Stealth Bobmer - hits nottingham apines -vet
1928-Armor
-Cannon kills English riflemen
1929-Spaceship update Egypt 9-3-3-0-0-0, Chinese 14-0-0-0-0-0, English 23-6-6-0-0-0
-Armor
1930-Armor
-Stealthbomber hits nottingham riflemen (vet) flag drops
-(non-support production below 80 - no more 1 turn armor)
-English develop Flight
1931-Alpine
-Stealthbomber hits alpines in hastings
1932-Alpine
-Stealthbomber hits engineer and dip w of hastings
-Russians and Chinese sign alliance against Rednecks!!! Ooh, I'm scared.
1933-Alpine
-Stealthbombers hit Hastings again
1934-Alpine
-Stealthbomber hits new Alpines in Nottingham
-Russians take reading from English.
1935-Alpine
-Stealthbomber hits Hastings, Stealth fighter hits Hastings down to size one but flag drops. Darn I wanted to destroy it.
-Final ship update: Egypt 15-4-4-0-0-0, China 20-0-0-0-0-0, England 27-7-8-0-0-0
-Chinese build one more structural
-English build one component and 6 structurals
1936-Total score 251 (32%) BillyBob the Mad

 

[Smash]

Good job.Ain't it fun building such a nice city?..maxing science and trade?...8 rivers!..very nice.
You wouldn't happen to have a 4000bc(or sometime early) save?
if so,post it..I'd like to give er a go..

Looks like you used MGE.Didn't have the greatest time with diplomacy.Darn hostile ai...it can be done though....

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Smash
Good job.Ain't it fun building such a nice city?..maxing science and trade?...8 rivers!..very nice.
You wouldn't happen to have a 4000bc(or sometime early) save?
if so,post it..I'd like to give er a go..

Looks like you used MGE.Didn't have the greatest time with diplomacy.Darn hostile ai...it can be done though....

I'm really starting to like that style of play. I've done nothing but warmonger in the past, so this is a great learning experience for me. The MGE AI is really annoying, but I still should probably talk to them more often. I just get tired of them demanding Mobile Warfare when I send an emissary, then telling me that they have no use for my worthless knowledge when I want to exchange techs. I also need to get more comfortable with giving them key mid-game technologies (Astronomy, Medicine, TOG) earlier and trust that they won't know what to do with them before I do.

I also restart if I don't find a good site by say 3200bc. Is that typical, or am I just being too picky?

The save file from 4000BC is attached (I think this it's the right one)

 

[Smash]

Yes restarting is typical.You ain't learning or having much fun just wandering about looking for a spot.

Tech gifting in MGE is tricky.I also don't like the AI to have too advanced technology.Its a judgement call.Sometimes giving away Auto or whatever doesn't hurt you...other times...you get a raft of bombers show up.

I try to have at least 4 techs "they" don't.Spend as much cash as possible before contacting(otherwise they want all your gold).Invariably they will make a demand of tech.I give them 1 as a freebie then either trade or gift the others.I usually can manage to get alliances and keep them like this.Just don't contact as much in MGE.Wait until you are "ready"

 

[.:KNAS:.]

whatever you do, dont forgive my ignorance, but what the hell is an OCC game?

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

OCC stands for the "One City Challenge." The objective is to win a Civ game by only ever having one city. You have to win by space race since you aren't allowed to capture other cities.

Most of what you need to know can be found by reading the "Paulicy", but there is even more that has been learned since that was written. There's been some OCC stuff here, but there was a lot more over at Apolyton. Things like OCC without your city ever exceeding Size 4.

 

[Smash]

You didn't tell me that 2 specials had to be mined!
This was a blessing in disguise as while I mined the 2 squares,I was able to pop at least 1/2 dozen huts and had 4 four legged units out clearing the map before I founded.This gave a huge jump on the huts.I don't think the ai could have tipped more than 3 or 4.I got everything else,including a few that were in ai city's radius's.
I made contact with all fairly quickly(no purple btw)and found the ais must have started with a decent amount of "free" techs.My first encounter brought me Currency and Bronze.This made the path to Trade very short.Almost got in trouble with hut techs but managed to stay away from "56 turns" situation.

I founded in 3450bc and it was off to the races.Collosus was done in 2300bc(iirc) and Republic was running by 12th century BC.

I am now just past 500ad and on the way to Automobile now.AIs have become very uncooperative of late but so far they havn't been able to build very close due to large numbers of barbs that are protecting me indirectly.The longer I can keep them from overlapping the better.I may be quick enough to avoid it all together.I have had alliances off and on and received some timely gifts, but it is not an open floodgate of support.

There are ALOT of rivers.This was most helpful in hut gathering.The city site has alot of mountains.I could only celebrate to size 20 before Refrigeration.I'm still pondering if I should terraform....

 

[Smash]

I finished up this afternoon.It got real hairy at the end.I was down to my 2 engineers when I got the ai to sign a peace treaty.That bought me the turns to build up defenses and survive a 2nd wave of sneak attacks.In the end, the city is a polluted fortress but the inhabitants are relaxing on AC

no log but here are some milestones

ARRIVAL-1787AD


3450bc-Dixieland


Monarchy-2450bc
Republic-1250bc
Democracy-140ad

Collosus-2350bc
Cope’s-750bc
Shake’s-450bc
Sir Isaac’s-240ad
Darwin’s-1020ad
Apollo-1540ad

Trade-3050bc
Construction-2750bc
Sanitation-275bc
Refrigeration-500ad
Automobile-900ad
Computers-1200ad
Space Flight-1400ad

Trade routes
1.1450bc
2.1100bc
3.700bc

size 12-1100bc
size 20-20ad

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Smash
You didn't tell me that 2 specials had to be mined!

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter
and I mined for Rivered Silk and Rivered Pheasant.

Originally posted by TimTheEnchanter
3850-Podunk founded: 8 rivers, whale, fish, expect 2 hidden specials on rivers, 4 mountains

Yes I did!

I've really got to look at your game to see how to improve. I'm going at some of this the wrong way. I got Republic 200 years before you, but you had a democracy government 1500 years ahead of me!!! Next time maybe I should put a higher priority on that.

I never seem to have a lot of luck hut hunting. I'm getting better at recognizing the hut pattern, but I am still not there yet. I also seem to get stuck with plodding archers more often than four legged friends. I need to be more aggressive with it.

I've also got to get my trade routes out much quicker. (Note to self: Trade arrows=GOOD!) How do you get them out so quickly? Do you just walk them across the wilderness to the nearest cities, or do you target certain types of cities.

One thing that surprised me was Space flight in 1400 AD, but no Apollo until 1540. What happened there?

Well, you only beat me by about...120 turns! Thanks for giving me something to learn from!

 

[duke o' york]

If you have trouble with the pattern, then this thread should be of use!

I'm impressed with both your efforts, but have something nasty up my sleeve.
I saw (I think it was) Tim's game playing as the barbs some time ago and thought of this:

The Duke o' York Resurrection Challenge!
Basically you play like the barbs and like a OCC in that you are not allowed a city until the first civ has been killed off. You are then allowed to put your settler down in that really good space you noticed with all your NON units and can expand your civ from there. Of course, this will be a lot easier if you start on an island with another civ, but remember that you can only destroy their cities, not capture them! If you're stuck on an island all by yourself then you could have a long wait just pressing end turn, but how late can you wait until you can get back into the game and win it? Playing as a respawned civ: dare you take the dukes' challenge?

 

[Smash]

In this game I got Bronze and Currency from whoever it was I bumped into first.Then I got Trade from a hut.That took care of that.After Collosus,I built a library ASAP,and then built 2 camels ASAP.I use whatever gold I have and disband units if needed(timely alliance cancels work wonders for this).I did not have the resources or time for 3 straight away,but usually that is the plan.Get those routes up.The ealier,the more you get the benefit of the ongoing route(s).And,a 75>100 camel at that stage is a tech.

criteria-What I look at most is the potential of the city.Does it have the potential to be good city...for the ai that is.The ai likes food,so food specials give the best ai cities generally.Are there any rivers?Whales?Silk?

My second consideration is one time payoff at this point.Payoffs will be relatively small anyway.Then demand and how hard or easy is it to deliver?Will I be marching that thing for 50 turns?..thats no good.Can I deliver by sea?(not in this game)
Another rare consideration is can I connect to the city with roads and rails?...this is rare but if you do see the ai build close enough,it is well worth it to set up with that city for the route bonus that comes with roads and RR connections.

I was near broke at that the time of Space.I had no freights stored up and no gold to rush anything.The end was quite tough actually.As I said,at one point I was down to only my 2 engineers,building SS parts and trying to fend off ais.They let me off the hook just when they had me dead to rights

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Smash
(timely alliance cancels work wonders for this)

I'm not sure what you mean. You cancel an alliance? How does that help? Doesn't cancelling an alliance reduce your reputation (making them less likely to play nice later?) Thanks for all your help.

 

[Smash]

Thats generally an easy thing to do with MGE.Just contact and don't give in..maybe do an insist you leave or a demand.No reputation hit here.

Heres the idea.You have cleared most of the map or most of it by a certain civ.You have numerous units there with nothing to do but head home.By cancelling an alliance,all your units that game determines are closer to their territory than yours will be sent home.Presto,all ready for disbanding.

 

[TimTheEnchanter]

Originally posted by Smash
Thats generally an easy thing to do with MGE.Just contact and don't give in..maybe do an insist you leave or a demand.No reputation hit here.

Heres the idea.You have cleared most of the map or most of it by a certain civ.You have numerous units there with nothing to do but head home.By cancelling an alliance,all your units that game determines are closer to their territory than yours will be sent home.Presto,all ready for disbanding.

Aha! Now I get it. :enlighten I've used peace treaties to teleport units back home (did it once or twice in that game, actually) by camping within a city radius and waiting for them to order the withdrawl. I guess I never thought to do it with alliances since I have such a hard time getting/keeping them.