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Another round of newbie questions

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Rocha06, Jan 12, 2007.

  1. Rocha06

    Rocha06 Chieftain

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    :confused:

    I was a big fan of Age of Empires , but then I heard that it was a pale copy of Civilization. I heard rumors about how addictive it was and how some people simply stop sleeping to play it and stuff. Suffice to say I was intrigued. And boy, were they right. I played it last night from 10:00 pm to 3:30 am. I had to resort to Civ III since my computer can't handle IV...oh, and I'm playing the Conquest exp., if it matters.

    So, I have a few questions about it:

    1-Tribes: I tried to play with a bunch of them, but I found the Americans the best one, because they are expansionists and they have a scout right from the get go. I also decided to choose my rival tribes, since I grew to hate those friggin Aztecs and Mayas, which, apparently, the AI loves.

    2-About happy civilians: Whenever I see unhappy civs, I move the Lux slider up and I create some clowns. But I have a hard time dealing with it, since my science fund goes really low. The result was that I lost a lot of Wonders. I try to find some luxuries on the field but, even so, they are still unhappy (that whole "It's too crowded" stuff). Is there a better strategy?

    3-Do you guys think it's a good thing to go and try to conquer a rival tribe right from the get go? I usually like to concentrate on my own tribe in the beginning, making improvements and researching like hell. But then I know that I may risk losing some luxuries to them. What are your thoughts?

    4-About clearing forests: when I have cities that are close-by to each other, it seems that clearing the forests does nothing. No city gets the 10 shields bonus. Is it because the AI gets confused as to what city should receive the bonus? Also, do you still get the bonus from a recently-planted forest?

    5-Some people on other threads were saying that it was a good thing to build cities on jungles. But what about the diseases? Plus, you get no bonus from clearing jungles.

    6-Burrrrrning question: do I have to make roads to connect my city to the mines and irrigation fields and the bonus resources that are close-by? (i.e., inside the city's radius)

    7-How come, in the beginning, the rival tribes get to research so many things quickly (and on Warlord) if it takes time for your cities to grow, allowing for more shields production? It's never that quickly for me.


    Sorry for the multitude of questions, but it's better to get them out of my system soon. I appreciate immensely any help.
     
  2. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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    I see we've gained another addicted player. Welcome.

    If you play with the cultural groups option (edit: yes, I think it is culturally linked starts), the game tends to pick civilizations from the American cultural group.

    Using the lux slider is usually better than using clowns (although a few clowns may be better depending on how many cities you have), since the extra food and production from several working citizens outweighs the reduction in income.

    Some people start conquering almost immediately, while some prefer to wait until cavalry or whatever. It's more of a personal preference. I personally prefer earlier aggression; I find it makes victory easier.

    The forest must be in the 20-tile radius of a city, and the city cannot be building a great or small wonder, palace, wealth, and maybe something I've forgotten. There is a specific order it looks for a city if more than one qualifies. Shields can be acquired by planting then chopping a forest, but the shield bonus can only be acquired from each tile once.

    By building a city on the jungle rather than adjacent to it, it saves the workers from having to clear that tile. You only get disease if a citizen is working a jungle tile. (Nevertheless, you'll probably want to plant cities by grassland or plains before jungle.)

    You don't need roads for the benefit of mines, irrigation, or bonus resources, only for strategic or luxury resources.

    They could be popping technologies from huts, or they could be trading with each other.
     
  3. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    First and foremost, welcome to CFC, Rocha06!

    I'm still noobish, but I'll answer what questions I can.

    Yes, it matters. When you start asking specific questions about strategy, people will begin to ask if you are playing Vanilla (no expansions), Play The World (PTW, an expansion) or Conquests (an expansion). Each expansion made some changes in how the game plays.

    First, I can't tell what you're doing once you "find some luxuries in the field," so let me ask this: Are you building a road to the luxuries? You have to hook up the luxes to get their benefits. Learn to use the sliders now. Clowns don't do anything except make people happy. In other words, they don't produce any shields or commerce themselves. Also bear in mind that you don't need 100% happy people. A city only riots when unhappy people outnumber happy ones.

    Situation dependent. It also depends on who you ask, play style, and what the rival tribe has that you want or need.

    No shield bonus, but there's perfectly good terrain under that jungle.

    Mines, fields and bonus resources, no. Caveat: building more roads increases commerce, which, in turn, speeds research. Build roads. For strategic resources and luxuries (as opposed to bonus resources), you must have a road to connect them to your empire.

    Such as? Can you give us an example?

    Edit: And I think TimBentley is referring to "Culturally Linked Start" or some such in response to #1.
     
  4. Tone

    Tone Chieftain Hall of Fame Staff

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    ...and the question is? All I would say is that America is one of my least favourite civs but each to his own.

    2-see comment on roads towards the bottom. If your commerce is quite low, using the lux slider will not be so effective and if your roads don't connect your towns then you have no luxes for your people, no matter how many are inside your territory. Maybe this is why your people are unhappy? I tend to ensure that my core towns are generally happy, maybe using the odd scientist but a key factor is getting roads to bring the resources back to the towns.

    You may also be letting your towns get too large in the early stages of the game. On Warlord you start with 3 content people which is normally quite forgiving, especially with a couple of MPs. I rarely have large towns in the AA because I'm too busy building more settlers and workers. Your population cannot grow too well if you have builts loads of these.

    3For me it depends upon the situation I find myself in and the VC I'm going for. If I have all I need in the way of luxes and early resources, plus plenty of room to expand, I'll leave them alone. If I'm boxed in, I lack iron and a close neighbour has some, or if I'm just going for a quick domination win I'll hit them whilst they are still concentrating on expansion.

    4-You only get the bonus if you've not cleared a forest from that tile before. Also you will not get the bonus if you are building wonders in those towns. Otherwise you should get the 10 shields.

    5-Jungles are a long term investment. The land is fertile once it is cleared and can be an area where some more advanced resources might pop up, such as coal or rubber. Don't settle here first but if you keep building settlers as I advised earlier, you would be wise to grab this land. Just make sure that you have plenty of workers.:)

    6 and 7This is the pair that set off alarm bells. Are you building any roads at all? Every tile that is worked by your citizens will gain more income if it is roaded. I suspect that your science is poor because you have few roads. You may also still be in Despotism when alternative governments are around. As you get to know the game better, you will realise that Warlord research is pretty poor. Top players can get elected as SG of the UN before Warlord AIs have got out of the Ancient Age so you are right to suspect that someting is not quite right here.

    You may want to post a save game so that we can be more specific about where improvements can be made as there are other options why your commerce may be low (too many units or too many improvements are two that come to mind).

    And finally...Welcome to CFC. This is the place to learn how to play the game well! BTW I still go back to AoE every so often. I've not changed my mind that they are great games. I just like civ more!

    Edit: I'm a very slow typist. I started this before there were any replies! (In my defence i id get pulled away to answer a 'phone call but even so...:blush:
     
  5. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    On warlord, the AI is playing with a slight disadvantage, so theoretically, you can outdo them. However. You can't outresearch *all* the AI's, at least not in the ancient age. You have to trade some, because they will.

    A research order which usually gives the human a lot of trade targets is alphabet/writing/Code of laws/philosophy - which has the advantage of getting you right into republic!!

    the ai's will go bronze working or warrior code and not usually touch alpha/writing right off. If you get those 4 techs, you probably don't have to research BW, WC, the wheel, CB, Pottery, IW, Horseback riding, perhaps mysticism, polytheism, mathematics and map making! That's at least 44 turns of research you dn't have to do, which is the difference between getting out of the AA at, say, 1000 BC and 10 BC. In other words, huge...
     
  6. TimBentley

    TimBentley Chieftain

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  7. Rocha06

    Rocha06 Chieftain

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    First of all, thanks everyone for making me feel welcome and responding to this thread so quickly. I will not quote everyone because that would take a while and I'm hungry...so....

    1-I know, it wasn't really a question. What I meant was, I LOVE the scout! And I only want to play with tribes that have scouts. I haven't had the time to figure out all of the other ones so, what tribes give me the scout?

    2-Of course I'm creating roads to luxs, I'm not that noobie. It's just that, it seems I would need a lot of them to keep those peasants happy. But, I read somewhere else that creating taxmen and scientists may also do the trick. Don't know if it's true. I was spending a lot of money on my lux slider and ended up falling back on research, which is annoying since I'm a research freak.

    3-I just think it's boring to conquer a primitive tribe. What's the fun in that? Much better to have a strong army later on and then give 'em what they deserve. Sure, there may be some war-weariness, but I occasionally sign a peace-treaty and, after a while, hit 'em again. Not sure if that's a good strategy though.

    4-Ok, got it. I didn't know about the whole "bonus-don't-work-if-it's-on-the-same-tile" thing. Also didn't know about no bonus for wonders. That's a pain in the ass!

    5-Yeah, I'm definitely not going to place my early cities on jungles. Better wait at least until Republic.

    6-Ok, also didn't know that roads increase commerce. I actually built a lot of roads between my cities. I just didn't know if it was necessary to build one on a mine or irrigation tile to actually work.

    7-I was actually quite advanced in the beginning of the game as far as research goes, but then, like I said before, my population was growing, and growing unhappy, and I had to resort to a lot of money for entertainment. And boy, lemme tell ya, I get reaaaaaally angry when I start to see those annoying pop-ups saying "The aztecs just built this wonder, the Mayas just built this wonder..."etc....especially when I was also BUILDING THE FRIGGIN THING! :mad:

    I'd love to see opinions about my game, how do I post my saved file?
     
  8. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    The expansionist ones. America, Russia, Mongols (?), I don't remember who else.

    Sorry. I just couldn't tell from your post if you were connecting them. Yes, creating taxmen and specialists will help you control unhappiness, but the slider is also important.

    What level are you playing at? If the AI is catching up to you at Chieftain or Warlord, you are probably choking your economy. I think someone mentioned this, but building too many buildings is a common mistake (& one that I made, too -- don't get me wrong).

    To post a game, there's a paper clip above the box that you type in to post, or you can use the Easy Upload (which is the red up-arrow) on the right side above the same box.
     
  9. Tone

    Tone Chieftain Hall of Fame Staff

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    ...or even use Manage Attachments on the Additional Options, just below where you type in your thread replies. You can then browse in your own files and upload to the CFC server.
     

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  10. Rocha06

    Rocha06 Chieftain

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    Oooook...here's my save file. Here are the details:

    Warlord
    American
    Middle Age
    Republic
    Just vanquished the Spanish and the Portuguese tribes , but that's because I had an option switched on (don't remember the name) in which I could just conquer one or two cities and the whole tribe would be gone. I know I know, it's cheap, but I wasn't aware of it and I'll never use it again because it is no fun. I wanted to ravage the Portuguese city by city. So, nevermind that.

    I know that one of my biggest mistakes was to build all of the building available. I'm hoping to vanquish the French but it will be tough, because they have a lot of wonders.
     

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  11. Tone

    Tone Chieftain Hall of Fame Staff

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    Right. I've taken a quick look and the classic mistake is that your cities are far too wide apart. You have the whole continent to yourself and you've got a total of just 12 cities. The nearest one to your capital is 6.5 units away. I'd be looking to have around half a dozen no more than 5 units away as this is where you main income and production will come from. In your other thread you talk about corruption. Distance from the capital is a key factor in this so make sure that you use the tiles around your capital. I suggest that you stop any core cities producing wealth and start building settlers. Fill in those gaps and the barbs will stop multiplying once you get rid of their camps. Trouble is that the AI has Navigation now and so they may get to many of 'your' sites first so I suggest that you give priority to claiming the resources that you currently have colonies on. If an AI settles around them, you'll lose your colony and your resource. OTOH a few foreign settlers will enable you to declare war on them and take over the towns; every cloud has a silver lining! ;)

    It looks like you've got the lux slider on 30% with the sole purpose of keeping Luanda happy. Take a look at your F1 screen and see how your cash is just wasting away. 106gpt on unit costs (maybe you could get rid of some spears and pikes and if you just build some more towns things won't be quite so bad here). 80gpt on entertainment? Ok, well some of that might be needed but you're spending a pile of cash around your empire to create a load of faces that are not needed just to keep a couple of citizens working in a town that is 75% corrupt. I messed around as follows:

    Your capital doesn't need the lux tax so I reduced it to zero. I then cycled around the other towns, getting scientists or clowns as appropriate. I then upped science to 60% giving Demo in 3 more turns @-34gpt. (save attached if you want to look. I haven't changed any builds although I started getting a nervous tick everytime I scrolled past a colloseum build without altering it!;) ) If you are lucky you may be able to get it before the Sumerians. If you do, when you are asked what your next research project is, ask to se The Big Picture, the press F4 for the Diplomacy screen and look to trade with them then. If you don't you run the risk of them trading with someone else in the 'inter-turn'. This may be something that happens more at higher levels but I mention it just in case. Then stop researching optionals that others know and try and get yourself into the IA and then head for Sci Method and build the ToE.

    How do you get into the IA? Either research at the max level that you can or save your money and trade. If the Sumerians have other non-optional techs that you can trade for, they are your biggest friends at the moment. They are the most backward and so could be your research partner. Together you can help each other into the IA. The other scientifics are more advanced but not in the IA so maybe once you get Chemistry they might have something to offer you tech wise. Try to research or buy what they haven't got and then swap it with them for a tech you haven't got. At this level the AI-AI trade 'bonus' is in your favour and so you may have some joy here. Note that France will sell you Chem for two luxes and 140g. It's not a deal I'd recommend (always think twice before giving luxes to a game leader) but I'm just pointing out that you have something to bargain with.

    Final point: build more workers! I'd suggest about 2 per city at this stage so that's about another 20! Your cities are food rich at the moment so can afford to do so and then the workers can mine a few more of those tiles.

    I'll leave it at that if that's OK with you but I'm sure others will make additional helpful comments.

    Just to add that I've been quite critical but I've tried to be constructive with it. I hope that you can see that your science was not in such a bad shape though-perhaps the indiscriminant use of the lux slider was actually the problem. Just have it raised enough to keep your core happy and use specialists in the rest of your empire is my advice. Looks to me like you'll be playing Regent pretty soon. :goodjob:
     

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  12. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    expansionist civs:

    Russia (Scientific)
    Portugese (Seafaring)
    America (Industrious)
    Zulu (Militaristic)
    Mongols (Militaristic)
    Hittites (Commercial)
    Incas (Agricultural)
    Arabia (Religious)

    Incas have the cool Chasqui, which is a scout that can fight and runs over hills and mountains like plains.
     
  13. Son_Of_Dido

    Son_Of_Dido Chieftain

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    Okay, here's what I see after a very quick, unthorough glance:

    1.) You have sizable stacks of military units inside your cities. They are doing nothing there but eating up your gold and slowing your research down. Either disband them to free up gold, or send them out to clear Barbarian settlements, or -- best of all of course in my opinion -- put them in boats and go do to the Byzantines what you did to the Spanish.

    2.) Speaking of which, your navy should be a lot bigger. And you have Astronomy, so why do you still have Galleys? Build Caravels, and quickly.

    3.) Valencia is building a Coliseum. The only time you should EVER build a Coliseum is if you are going for a 1 City 20K Culture win.

    4.) You do not have nearly enough workers. While some people might say that an Industrious Civ (like America) can get away with having fewer workers, and this is somewhat true early on, let me put it this way. The Americans are Expansionist and Industrious. What two units do these traits effect? Scouts and Workers. Not building these units and using them is basically taking your strengths away from yourself. Since you're no longer in the Ancient Era you don't really need to bother with Scouts anymore, as they can no longer give you easy technology gains from goody huts. So that means you're down to workers. Build LOTS. Americas Civ strength is its faster working workers. Build them. Use them.

    5.) Also, you need a lot more cities, and closer together too. Several reasons for this. A) The more cities you have, the more unit support you will have. This is doubly true when you are in Republic (which is good, 90% of the time you want to get in to Republic ASAP and stay there). B) You did all that hard work to conquer all that land and eliminate your rivals on your continent. It's all yours. Start using it! The AI civs on the other continent are going to start swarming in with settlers and start scavenging what you yourself have killed and earned. C) Population is power in Civ. The more cities you have also means the more commerce you will generate per turn, ergo the more money you will have and the faster you will research. D) With America it is especially true that bigger = better, because again, by the time America's UU shows up in the tech tree the game is usually already over. So your military is going to be made up entirely of normal units. Since you don't have an unfair advantage on an individual level, your unfair advantage needs to come from having a whole lot MORE military units than the tribes you're about to start conquering (especially the ones in the Industrial Age. They'll have riflemen. You'll see what I mean :)).

    6) No. Seriously. Fill up that continent with your cities. Don't be afraid to let cities overlap their radiuses. In fact, it's better to have them overlap. It took me quite a while to figure that out. Especially with America, quantity is better than quality. So, in terms of unit support, a size 7 city is equal to size 12. So, as far as the whole of your empire is concerned, ten size 7 cities is better than five size 12 cities. Also, since you're still in the Middle Ages, you do not have the technolgy to get your cities above size 12. And, in fact, once you do have that technology, you'll notice that size 13 and above cities start polluting. This is a disincentive to go above 12. All the more reason to pack your cities in tightly and let them overlap some; they don't need 20 tiles, they each only need
    12. Or maybe even just 7. (As an added bonus, it is easier to keep a size 7 city from rioting than a size 12. You'll be able to lower your luxury rate, which will in turn let your tax and science go higher). Oh, and while I'm at it, if you have to make one citizen be a specialist to keep a city from rioting, try to have them be a Taxman or Scientist instead of an Entertainer.

    If you have a size 12 city, it doesn't need a granary anymore. It can't grow anymore, so a city building that speeds growth is a useless drain on your cash supply.

    Cities should be 3 or even just 2 tiles apart. If you'v ever seen CxxxC or CxxC on this message board, this is what it means. The capital C's are city squares and the x's are the tiles between them.

    7.) A common phrase around here is "your cities don't need anything. What does YOUR EMPIRE need your cities to have?" If you're building libraries and temples and coliseums all over the place, you're probably doing what I did early on; leaving each city on its own to take care of itself. This is another way in which you are hamstringing yourself, handicapping your empire, and letting the AI outresearch you on Warlord. It is important -- especially early on, but still even at this point in the game that you're at -- to let your cities specialize. Let one concentrate on building settlers. Let one concentrate on building workers. Although at this stage of the game I'd recommend at least two of each so you can fill up all that land of yours before the AI starts trying to steal it from you. At least one of your coastal cities, perhaps even more, should be building caravels. Especially if you're planning to invade the other continent, as you'll need boats to get your military from where it is to where it should be -- on foriegn soil, wreaking havoc. And on that note, the rest of your cities should be building military units (ALL unit producing cities should have barracks. All cities not producing military units no longer need barracks. Sell them off). Don't have each city try to do everything for itself. It's like trying to manage a bunch of tiny one-city civs at once. Let each city specialize.

    8.) Did having the Statue of Zeus and the Ancient Cavalry cause you to shy away from researching Metallurgy? Don't be afraid of it. You'll get cannons, which you will probably need if you're going to invade, and on that same note, your Ancient Cavalry aren't going to be much use against enemies that have Rifelmen defending. Your ancient Cavs are still good enough to deal with dispersing barbarians, and you've got enough of them to take care of that job. After Metallurgy comes Military Tradition, and the Cavalry Unit. This will still have major problems against the French and Zulu, who will have riflemen, but the Cavalry at 6.3.3 will rip through the other medival civs, such as the Byzantines....

    9) Which brings me to what will be my last point for now. Pointy Stick Research. You know what's a great way to catch up to the AI who is outresearching you? Beat 'em up. Think of it as mugging them for their technology. Raze a few cities and they will be "convinced" to share their technology with you in exchange for you not hurting them anymore (which has the added bonus of slowing down their research from that point onward, letting you catch up). The quicker you do this, the better. It will be a lot easier when you have Military Tradition an Cavalry, but a lot harder once they have Nationalism and Riflemen. That's your window. Build some boats and get to it before it closes. :D

    10) I didn't check all your cities in depth. But, I did look at San Francisco. That's been built pretty well. I like it. Size 7, and that was a good city to build a Courthouse in. (Some cites, the ones furthest from your capital, will be so corrupt even a Courthouse can't help them). It's on the water, too. In fact, that would be a good candidate for a city to commit to producing Caravels if you're going to invade the other continent (and obviously from my post here I, as a warmonger myself, am clearly assuming you intend to do :D).

    11.) You're researching Democracy. As soon as you've got it, check around to see what techs you can trade it for. Check on every civ to see how much you can get from each one for it, then take the best deal. I do not recommend actually revolting and switching over to Democracy, though. You're already in Republic, which is a good place to be.

    I might have more tips after taking another, closer look at your game. But, a picture is worth a thousand words, and a posted save is worth even more than that. Checking Tone's save file of what he did with your game will likely say more and say it better than I have. :)
     
  14. MAS

    MAS Chieftain

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    The sliders are relative numbers that represent how you split your total amount of commerce.

    Your best bet to increase research (and lux, and tax income) is to increase your absolute amount of commerce.

    The only way to do that is to build more cities and make sure every tile in your empire has a road.

    So fill your land with cities, around your capital, build cities with 2 or 3 tiles in between. Further away from your capital, build cities as close to each other as possible.

    For now, forget about wonders, building more cities is more important. Let the AI waste their resources on wonders.

    Once you run out of free land to grab, conquer the AI and fill their land with your cities too!
     
  15. Rocha06

    Rocha06 Chieftain

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    Wow, thanks guys! This is been really helpful. Now to my commentaries:

    Tone and Son_Of_Dido: Ok, I get the picture about building cities closer to each other. But what if you're still quite early in the game (before MA) and your scout finds a lux that's no so close to your main cities and you think you might need it to keep your people happy...should I build a city near that or just a colony? Problem with colonies is that, you'll always need someone to protect it and you're gonna have to build a road all the way there.

    I know this may sound stupid, but I thought the lux slider was the same for all the cities. Tone, you said that you reduced my capital's lux slider to zero. Does that mean that they are specific to each city?

    I loved the Ancient Cavalry, which means, I loved the Statue of Zeus. I plan on building it in future games. What do you guys think?

    About trading: I know from the threads that this is a common question, but I never know what kinds of techs I should be willing to give to the AI. I don't want them to catch up to me in research. Maybe I should give the ones that are not so necessary for me? (Like, I don't know, things like Chemistry, Music, Press, Mysticism, etc.)

    Of all those expansionists tribes AutomatedTeller wrote, which one do you think it's the best (i.e. more fun to play, strongest)?

    I know you'll probably think I'm declaring defeat, but I'm thinking of starting a new game for now. I'm still a noob on this game, it's been like what, 3 weeks of playing (and not everyday). So I think NOW I'm finally getting the hang of it and I want to try a new game knowing everything you guys told me. I may go back to this game later on but I made so many mistakes (and that whole conquer-one-city-vanquish-tribe-for-good option is really cheap and it made me feel like a loser), and the AI built so many wonders and is quite ahead of me that, I don't know, makes me want to start over.

    Once again, thanks for everything!
     
  16. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    No, there's not a slider for each city. I'm not sure what Tone meant. Maybe that the Capital was the only city that needed the slider to begin with?

    The Statue of Zeus is a powerful wonder. Ancient Cavalry are a powerful AA unit and can be used to great advantage. If you've got ivory, it's a good wonder.

    Colonies are a pain and I almost never build them. I won't say I never build them, but it's very rare. I'd much rather have a city.

    Tech trading: I would call that situation dependent. What I'm willing to trade depends on what they've got that I want, what do I need, who are they at war with (or can I bribe them into a war with someone else), etc. Not a simple question.

    And I would say don't worry about starting over. Maybe it is declaring defeat, but who cares? If the elimination-by-conquering-one-city feels like a cheap victory, why would you want to play it out? Set your conditions to what you'll enjoy playing and have at it.
     
  17. MAS

    MAS Chieftain

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    Just expand exponentially outward. If the AI grabs it before you do, just take it from them later...

    The lux slider takes a % of each city's uncorrupted commerce and turns it into happy faces.
    Lets say each city produces 20 commerce (for the sake of this argument) and lets say each city need 2 happiness.
    If a city is 80% corrupt, then 4 commerce will be available for SCI/LUX/TAX. To create 2 happy faces in this city you will need to have the lux slider at 50% for 2 commerce to be given to lux.
    In the mean time, your capital is 0% corrupt, and 10 of its 20 commerce is turned into happiness, and this is a waste, because the capital doesn't need that much happiness.
    So, in this situation, set lux to 10%, so there is 2 gold going to happiness in your capital, and use a specialist citizen in the 80% corrupt city.

    I think resources in the early game are better spend on expansion. That means, settlers, workers, and offensive military units. Rather than wonders

    But because of the advantages the human player is given in chieftain difficulty, almost anything will work, so have fun building any wonders you like!

    Research up the tech tree. (this means from left to right in case of Civ3) The AI tends to research all the lower branches first before going to the higher end techs. So if you go straight up, you can trade your higher end tech for several lower end techs.

    Once you know all the tech the AI knows, you can start on getting ahead of the AI.
    If one AI civ knows a tech, then you better trade it to the other AI yourself, that way you still get something in return, otherwise the AI will trade among each other.

    At chieftain, you shouldn't worry to much about it, because the AI should be way behind you soon enough (if you follow my advice about expanding exponentially)

    I don't think very highly of the expansionist trade regardless.
    The best 3 traits in the game are agricultural, commercial, and industrious.
    But the Inca unique unit replaces the scout, (and is more expensive in production shields) so that reduces the scouts potential.

    I think, in your case, it doesn't matter. At this moment, your own skills form a much bigger factor, so much that any civ trait has no notable impact on your success. You should probably just try them all out and see what they all do.

    That is ok, I start over any game I don't like, any time. And I'm sure that many other people here do the same...


    Don't worry about the wonders... If the AI didn't put resources in the wonders, it would be even further ahead.
     
  18. Tone

    Tone Chieftain Hall of Fame Staff

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    MAS has dealt with many of the issues but as I'm sure you've noticed, although we tend to agree on fundemental issues, we don't all agree all of the time! I'll give my take on a couple of things and reply to the questions on things I said about the save.

    I don't recommend colonies apart from in a few rare situations. If nothing else they cost a worker and these are so valuable in the early stages of the game as they cost food. (The most valuable resource in the early game IMO!) Use the information we have given as guidelines, not rigid rules. The computer works to rigid rules and that's why we can beat it. If you need that resource, then go and claim it. However you can have 5 content citizens on Warlord so I'd doubt whether you actually need any luxes in the very early stages. If you are building workers and settlers as advised, your cities cannot grow too large.

    You misunderstood me so I'll requote and explain again.
    What I meant was that your capital doesn't need any lux tax so I reduced the slider, thus reducing it everywhere. I then looked at every city and only needed to hire a couple of specialists to keep every city happy. This is what I meant by the comment about you had the slider at 30% for the benefit of just one city. As MAS says, put the lux slider high enough to just keep your core happy and then use specialists everywhere else. I saved more than 80gpt by doing that, which could be redirected into research. Keep an eye on that F1 screen to see where your money is going.

    I think that SoZ is one of the better wonders to build. 200 shields for a stack of ACs is good value IMO. Two things though: don't build it too early as expansion with settlers will be even better value in the early game and don't get to rely on it. You need to be able to play the game without it so if you don't have ivory, learn what else you can do.

    Totally agree with MAS in that it is generally one of the weaker traits when you consider that after the end of the AA it offers pretty much nothing. However it can give you a fantastic lead at the start of the game and personally I'm rather keen on the Russians. Their UU comes a little on the late side for my tastes but the Cossack has blitz ability which is great for generating MGLs. I'm still proud of one game I played a while back when I got a diplomatic victory in 470AD on Warlord level, hence my bias towards them. Arabia has a great UU in the Ansar Warrior so I'd recommend those as well, although the Religious trait is probably the weakest going. I tend to play the others when I feel like playing with a bit of a handicap!:mischief: However if you want to play a few more games with the Americans, then do that. If you enjoy them, that's all that counts. Anyway, I actually think that it's wise to play a few games with the same civ so that you can learn how to play them to their strengths.

    It's only a game so you do what you want to do. In the end we only play for fun (well, in my case probably a combination of fun and a need to feed my addiction) and so you do what's going to give you the most enjoyment. That applies to anything else we've advised. Just keep those cities closer together though! :D
     
  19. gmaharriet

    gmaharriet Ancient Crone

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    I agree with the others that Expansionist is a pretty weak trait but, that being said, I've had some really good games with the Russians also. I think that may be due to the early tech lead that expansionist tribes can get from popping goody huts and then the Russians also get a free tech at each change of age for also being Scientific. Those two factors combined sort of reinforce each other. And, as Tone already mentioned, the Cossack with its blitz ability can produce a lot of MGLs.

    The Statue of Zeus is one of the few AA wonders I ever build (if I have ivory), and can be even more important if you happen to be lacking horses. I agree that it's a good value for a wonder.

    And, yes, if you're game is set for "elimination" conquests, and if you're not having fun with it, I'd start a new game. After all, you want to be playing a game where you'll learn how to play under normal conditions. For most of us, elimination isn't a normal win condition. :)
     
  20. AutomatedTeller

    AutomatedTeller Frequent poster

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    Warlord has 3 content, not 5.

    As for connecting luxuries - I get pretty anal about it when I'm playing a 20K game, but that's because the strategy for that is get your 20K city up to size 12 as soon as you can, so every lux is important.

    If you must get a resource (lux or iron or horses), and the lux is in a place you want to settle eventually, but is a ways away, feel free to use a colony. In the early game, a settler is the most important thing - where you put your first 5-7 cities will have a huge impact on the game. If a resource you want is not in that area, then don't use the settler.

    On warlord, btw - I would use a colony if the iron I wanted was in mountains, where I had to get a cultural expansion to get it. Or perhaps if a lux was on a mountain or in jungle, and I needed it now, not in 9 turns. Or if I really wanted it and I had 3 or 4 great food locations to get too, first.

    My personal opinion is that the expansionist trait is probably the most powerful trait on low levels (cheiftain and warlord, perhaps regent), because the AI can't get to any of the huts and will take forever to find people. There is a great game in the stories and tales section of SirPleb, who played a standard cheiftain SS game as the russians where he was 1/2 way through the middle ages at 1000 BC :)

    As you move up, it becomes less useful, because the huts pop less useful things and the AI takes more of them.

    I've never played the Hittities (commercial), and they get a bad rep, but commercial is a heck of a trait. It's actually a really good trait for new people, cause playing like the AI is almost rewarded with a commercial civ.

    Arabia is fun - 3 move knight replacements kick butt.

    I would stay away from portugal for awhile - expansionist and seafaring is a tough combination, cause they don;t work well together. America is actually a good expansionist civ - you should be able to get a real good head start with fast workers and scouts. Don't forget to make your first 2 or 3 builds scouts!
     

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