Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by techathon, May 7, 2010.
I support anti-steam
Millions of flies can't be wrong...
Because arbitrary rules with no justification help to avoid admitting the inevitability of online activation DRM.
"I don't want third party libraries" (even though every application uses third party libraries)
"I don't want steam on my hard disk" (even though it's tiny)
"I won't pay more than $20 for a steamworks game" (even though this number was plucked from thin air)
"I don't want steam running in the background" (even though it uses a minuscule amount of ram)
"I don't want to make an account" (even though I signed up for an account just to post this message)
This way, by making some broad statement with absolutely no justification what so ever, anyone trying to have a reasonable conversation about things has to spend about 6 pages wading through it all.
Just noticed another thing now on Steam. If you already own the PC version of a game that is also available on Mac (through Steam) you don't need to buy the Mac version! So for those of you who bought Civ 4 Games on Steam, you can install the Mac version as well if you have one.
As soon as I find steam free download link
Herp derp! I see what you did there!
Your irrational refusal to find out anything about how steam really works is not going to help drag you from ignorance.
I have learned that one doesnt have to prove a single thing and then can proceed to goad people on with my own broad statements that I can then refuse to actually back up with any sort of actual evidence.. nice!
thread was started to "protest" the exclusive use of Steam and the lack of choice provided to us the consumers. then, those responding in agreement of this are effectively slammed for daring to speak up for our personal beliefs. in addition we then are told that we had to provide the proof of our thoughts when it was the opposing side making the broad claims regarding the "majority" of gamers out there. when this was directly questioned...evasion was the acceptable measure of response. simple astounding.
I personally will not being buying CIV5 given the exclusive use of Steam~
My new petition will be "If Chalks post count goes over 1000 before the end of the week I'll not use Steam"
Don't take me seriously, it's a light-hearted observation
You like Steam Chalks?
Yep. The Mac version of the games and the Mac Steam client have been in beta for some time now. Today is the official launch, but not all of the games are ready yet (I think they should've delayed the launch until more games were ready, but oh well). Civilization IV Complete is part of SteamPlay, so owning the Steam version gives you the PC and Mac OSX version, but it's not unlocked yet. It should be unlocking very soon now, possibly in a few hours or days.
Apparently some people are reporting that Civilization IV Complete for Mac on Steam has unlocked now.
I happen to be absolutist (so I don't use alcohol, smoke or do drugs), do you suggest I go out there get drunk, smoke few packs of cigarettes/cigars/weed and pumb my self full of various drugs just to find out what effects they have on me
Edit: your second paragraph is not entirely correct. I am willing to find out about Steam when ever I am curious feature/funtion etc, that usually involves asking questions (I do seem to get more contradictory answers with steam than questions about most other things however.) or reading faqs/wikis (if I I'm curious enough). However what I am not willing to do is install it my self as I already know enough about it to know I don't ever want it in my computer, no matter what. That is the whole point of asking questions about any service/product and I do it every time before trying anything.
If Steam goes down forever, so does Civ 5 since a really knowledgable person on these forums said that Steam is fully integrated into Civ 5 and without Steam, Civ 5 cannot function.
Not my words, but someone elses.
There's nothing that will make it more secure for the developer. To date, every single DRM system put into to use has been broken, even the draconian method used in Assassins Creed 2. So why make things more inconvenient and intrusive for the consumer while waging a futile battle against the hackers? The more I think about this system frankly, the more I think it has nothing at all to do with piracy, but with the second-hand market.
We have every right to complain that we're being forced to install software that we have absolutely no use for. That's like saying we have no right to complain when someone places spyware on our systems. Give me a break! I've never tried heroin either but that doesn't mean I have no right to speak out against it.
You are exactly right, Firaxis is making paying consumers lives more of a pain to play the game than it should for that precise reason: The 2nd hand market.
They are targeting their consumer base and penalizing them to make it such a pain to resell the game if they choose, that instead they just will not.
They are waging war against YOU, the buyer, because they expect that one day you might throw the game on eBay.
Most of us aren't arguing that Steam provides a useful service for some people. But if we don't really intend on making use of their features or titles, why is it being rammed down our throats? What happened to the concept of consumer choice here? Or do you propose that we just roll over and do whatever the big corporations tell us to do, like nice little sheep?
Well, for anyone that doesn't use multiplayer or any of the other features of steam it's just a copy protection like every game since the eighties had. Consumers never had a choice there did they? This one is pretty much less painful as having to put in a cd-key even, or using a cardboard wheel to put in codes. Or any other drm you wouldn't probably haven't noticed they'd put in since it's not so obvious as steam due to all the features it adds. Nothing is rammed through your throats, if you don't like it don't use those features. I don't see why noone should be able to use them because some people oppose it for some very vague and uninformed reason.
Consumer choice IS important. You're right. Therefore I refuse to have this third party software on my system. Since I never watch the intro videos, always choosing to skip, and I play directIP games only, I think it's an OUTRAGE that I should have to have video decoding software and matchmaking software on my PC, and I would much appreciate it if Firaxis could do me a version of Civ4 without these please, as I don't feel I should be forced to install them on my computer as that's what they WANT me to do and I don't want to just roll over and accept it like some sheep.
Please, Firaxis. Middleware isn't a way of cutting development costs by bringing in off the shelf software to ease development costs and time, resulting in better products. It's an evil. Games companies should be forced to only use their own proprietary software, even if they don't have the time, money or staff resources to do them well.
re: The DRM issue, the same thing applies. I'd like some quickly cobbled together DRM written in-house that quits my game automatically if I lose internet connection for a second, even in a single player game. Also, I would like every company to make their own DRM system, so if I have 20 games installed, I can have 20 DRM systems installed on my PC at the same time, all using their own bandwidth and system resources. Instead of this sickeningly '1984' style well developed mature system that's proven to work well and also justified itself with a good feature set that you're forcing on us. Take a leaf out of Ubisoft's book, Firaxis. Proprietary software is king!
And oh, as well, make damn sure there isn't a little icon in the taskbar and don't make us dream up a username and password. That's just like something Stalin would have done.
Radtools is video codec and gamebryo game engine so neither can be compared to steam. The closest is gamespy that is multiplayer client/service(I'm asuming here, as I said before I don't multiplay at all) and as far as I know it's not mandatory (AFAIK I don't have it installed or is it integrated somehow? Even if it were, it never does anything while I play single player and if it is I agree, you should have choise of using other services like steam, game ranger et all if you want to multiplay for some odd reason ).
It's not just a codec, it's an entire set of video and audio features in DLL form, on your PC, that's AUTOMATICALLY loaded when Civ is loaded and has the gall to be written by a third party who makes it their sole purpose to sell this software to games studios to use in their games, just like Steam. It's an outrage that third party dll would be loaded automatically when Civ 4 is loaded. I HAVE to install it. I've no choice in the matter. At least give me a seperate .EXE that doesn't load that DLL, geez. I bought a Firaxis game, I expect just friendly Firaxis code in that directory, PLEASE?
Hey, at least it doesn't have an icon in the taskbar and a username / password. That's the only thing stopping me from starting a petition.
Gamespy, another evil DLL, that is loaded by the Gamespy client or by Civ4 itself. Imagine that! Disgraceful. I chose specifically NOT to install gamespy, but the crafy evil bastards STILL install the Gamespy framework on my PC regardless. Surely there's a law against this??
At least it gets rid of that damn taskbar icon. Those things really get to me.
(Having read this thread in full now I see a lot of my arguments have already been said by page 2-3, yet the opposition just keep bleating 'choice choice I want choice' without realising they install tons of third party software they don't use yet have no choice to install, or are not even told they are installing, some of which far more intrusive and memory intensive, but they don't care because it has no little icon and username/password and are then under the illusion they are being conscientious and principled consumers. Silly and misguided.)
This entire thread confuses the hell out of me. What kind of weird Civ fanatics cut their noses off to spite their face in lieu of arguably the most important update to the Civilization franchise in history?
Here here! (hear hear?) I think I'd probably still get Civ 5 if it involved me getting [CENSORED]'d by Sid Meier himself, to be honest, so any DRM would be tolerable to me.
We should start a 'get the taskbar icon removed from Steam' petition and put the steam registration on Civ 5's install like most middleware is, and all this silly bother can be brushed under the carpet.
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