Anti-Steam Petition

[syllogism]

Nowadays that's really preferable to being forced to have the DVD in drive

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

Thanks for the admiration but this is just a matter of principle.

Like others, I am a single player, mostly because my job does not allow me to be available at given times.
As a SP, there is no point for me to have to have an internet connection for installing or playing the game.
Therefore, being forced to make use of such a construction is offensive for me.

Since I am not willing to bow under their command, I will stay with Civ4 and other games.
It is just that easy.

I doubt that. There was many people claimed they weren't going to buy the new Modern Warfare 2 for the reason of no dedicated servers and such, and petitioned against it. Until someone researched all of the people in the petition and found them currently playing the game when the game was released.

I'm pretty sure that's what the industry like to repeat until people are convinced it's true.

So you have some kind of fact and figures that Piracy doesn't hamper the sales of pc games?

 

[syllogism]

Not to mention it doesn't really matter as it's quite clear the publishers think having the game being sold on Steam, even exclusively, is worthwhile and, thus, sell better than games that are not. Feel free to boycott and complain all you want, but in the end this move will cause Civ 5 to move more copies.

 

[need my speed]

That's why thousands of sites and download links exists...Full of no cd cracks, fixed exes, patches, cracks, hacks, and what not. Which all aren't forced.

That was a reply to syllogism's previous post, not the one above me but the one before that one.

 

[Akka]

So you have some kind of fact and figures that Piracy doesn't hamper the sales of pc games?

Because YOU have some, perhaps

Be a tool and believe whatever crap they tell you if you want.
I prefer to use simple logic : making pointless protection that are defeated before the game is even launched (hence not bothering pirates), but annoy legitimate consumers (hence bothering NON-pirates), is not a good way to promote sales.

 

[Maeztu]

I am with Commander Bello in this one. Also a veteran civ player who only plays against the computer. I have bought 5 copies of different releases of Civ games, including CIV III complete for Mac. I don't know why we are treated so badly.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

The question lies still to very problem of why the trend has taken hold, and carried over to our favorite Civilization franchise. And to the heart of it all. Why all these anti-piracy measures? If publishers has decided all of the sudden to counter-act against more anti-piracy, then they would not seek to have 3rd party softwares and DRMs to be totally embedded in their own products. That doesn't make sense. To me, it is the reaction of the publishers against piracy instead of pirated games being downloaded more after the reactions by the publishers.

 

[btsplayer]

Hopefully the noisy minority will bugger off or put a sock in it when they realise that they're either going to have to use steam or play something else.

"Hopefully"? There are lost incomes if people play something else. How is this good for 2K?

No matter what, with all the piracy going on. This trend is something that will stay forever indefinately.

Have you ever heard of Creative Commons? There are other structures of information sharing than piracy or this DRM restrictions.

You just give up and don't care.

There is a saying: "The floorsher is better than the bench stretcher".

Bench stretcher being someone who just lays back does nothing.

All this is about anti-piracy. Not the other way around like you've mentioned. It is about a war against the sophistication of illegal copies of games.

I've never acquired a pirated game. I am not even a casual gamer as such anymore. I just to be though. Civ4 BtS is only game I play occasionally. But being forced to have Steam is an issue that I can't accept.

Sure, I've followed the news through many months of Civ5. But it is only a game though. I don't need it.

Without Steam I would have bought it. Again, I did have Steam on my machine before and purchased some games. So I know what Steam is.

We as fans ARE NOTHING BUT WALLETS for companies. This is a fact. Steam is the proof. But I realize that this is a truth for all companies in the world. But consumers have power if they voice their opinion and don't buy stuff they don't like.

Companies will listen if their income is in jeopardy. So therefore this defeatism from people saying that Steam and likes "... will stay forever indefinately" is very sad.

The message is "Don't think! Just buy and deal with it".

Well... I am dealing with it. I am not buying Civ5 But life goes on.

 

[syllogism]

I am with Commander Bello in this one. Also a veteran civ player who only plays against the computer. I have bought 5 copies of different releases of Civ games, including CIV III complete for Mac. I don't know why we are treated so badly.

You are part of an ever diminishing minority as these days the vast majority of PC/MAC (as Steam is coming to mac soon) gamers love steam. It's quite likely 2K/Firaxis didn't even anticipate there being any backlash and this is, apparently, one of the few communities with even a vocal anti-steam minority.

 

[ori]

The question lies still to very problem of why the trend has taken hold, and carried over to our favorite Civilization franchise. And to the heart of it all. Why all these anti-piracy measures? If publishers has decided all of the sudden to counter-act against more anti-piracy, then they would not seek to have 3rd party softwares and DRMs to be totally embedded in their own products. That doesn't make sense. To me, it is the reaction of the publishers against piracy instead of pirated games being downloaded more after the reactions by the publishers.

There is a pretty good argument that some of the DRM schemes currently taking hold are mostly aimed at reducing second hand sales (which is a legitimate use of games you bought in many parts of the world).
Doesn't mean piracy is no concern - I personally am not terribly certain that it actually reduces sales, but its not really possible to prove either way since we have no piracy free test bed...
Edit: My main concern with most DRM schemes is indeed that they mostly inconvenience legit users and don't usually help to combat piracy efficiently, since the arms race is just escalated on both sides and pretty much all DRM can be broken if someone really wants to. Some DRM schemes are more successful in preventing very early pirating though, so that might be another reason for companies looking at opening week(end)/month sales as their milestones to implement them.

 

[xenobiotic]

Since I am not willing to bow under their command, I will stay with Civ4 and other games.
It is just that easy.

Too bad no one cares. Check out the steam website, civ4 complete is the 2nd bestselling game of this week followed by civ5 in 5th. People clearly don't mind buying civ games on steam. This game will be a huge success and there will be undoubtedly less piracy than civ4 due to the much higher difficulty of cracking steam.

Your boycott will make absolutely no difference. Even if this entire community boycotted civ5 it would make no difference.

You are part of an ever diminishing minority as these days the vast majority of PC/MAC (as Steam is coming to mac soon) gamers love steam. It's quite likely 2K/Firaxis didn't even anticipate there being any backlash and this is, apparently, one of the few communities with even a vocal anti-steam minority.

No its quite likely they didn't care. All communities about games requiring steam. Look at the controversy with MW2, then look at its sales.

The so called 'backlash' of this community is insignificant in regards to total civ5 sales.

 

[syllogism]

No its quite likely they didn't care. All communities about games requiring steam. Look at the controversy with MW2, then look at its sales.

The so called 'backlash' of this community is insignificant in regards to total civ5 sales.

Oh, I agree it's completely insignificant. I merely asserted that, based from what I've seen, most communities don't even have people who are anti-Steam.

 

[Maeztu]

You are part of an ever diminishing minority as these days the vast majority of PC/MAC (as Steam is coming to mac soon) gamers love steam. It's quite likely 2K/Firaxis didn't even anticipate there being any backlash and this is, apparently, one of the few communities with even a vocal anti-steam minority.

And that is an argument for what?

I still have my civ III and IV, so I don't care much either. I may buy it, though, but not in the following 12 months.

 

[btsplayer]

Your boycott will make absolutely no difference. Even if this entire community boycotted civ5 it would make no difference.

IF everyone had your attitude, then yes. You would be correct. But I disagree. Less income for 2K IS less income for 2K.

 

[syllogism]

And that is an argument for what?

I still have my civ III and IV, so I don't care much either. I may buy it, though, but not in the following 12 months.

It's an argument for most of the customers finding better Steam support to be a bonus or at least being indifferent to it; they are not treating their customers badly and I do not know who the "we" in your post was referring to.

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

"Hopefully"? There are lost incomes if people play something else. How is this good for 2K?



Have you ever heard of Creative Commons? There are other structures of information sharing than piracy or this DRM restrictions.

You just give up and don't care.

There is a saying: "The floorsher is better than the bench stretcher".

Bench stretcher being someone who just lays back does nothing.



I've never acquired a pirated game. I am not even a casual gamer as such anymore. I just to be though. Civ4 BtS is only game I play occasionally. But being forced to have Steam is an issue that I can't accept.

Sure, I've followed the news through many months of Civ5. But it is only a game though. I don't need it.

Without Steam I would have bought it. Again, I did have Steam on my machine before and purchased some games. So I know what Steam is.

We as fans ARE NOTHING BUT WALLETS for companies. This is a fact. Steam is the proof. But I realize that this is a truth for all companies in the world. But consumers have power if they voice their opinion and don't buy stuff they don't like.

Companies will listen if their income is in jeopardy. So therefore this defeatism from people saying that Steam and likes "... will stay forever indefinately" is very sad.

The message is "Don't think! Just buy and deal with it".

Well... I am dealing with it. I am not buying Civ5 But life goes on.

Let us put cynicism aside here and examine the purpose of why video games are created. First of all, they are for you to be entertained. In order the exchange is made by the developer to the customers, a third party has to be involved in order for the exchange is to be taken. That is why publishers exist for that very reason unless the developer of the game can do that service, which requires a lot of money to pay such individuals that are in the know of these things. Now due to the nature of their trade, they must do in a way were they think in cost saving sales and how to find the market to deploy such items, and as well as accurately predicting how many will be sold on how many they had released. This is a logistic endeavor. And partnering with 3rd party vendors like Steam eliminate the cost of packages like cd cases, cds, booklets, and etc. for the sole reason of profit.

Another to take mind is that these vendors, like Steam, does other things as well. They have a decent system put up for to take account on who is using legitimate games instead of games being used by some unknown sources by some unknown account holders who had pirated it from some site.

The trend in video games is not a temporary one, but really the only way to make pirating go down a little. And one way to do that is to have people download them from a well known legitmate 3rd party source like Steam.

There is a pretty good argument that some of the DRM schemes currently taking hold are mostly aimed at reducing second hand sales (which is a legitimate use of games you bought in many parts of the world).
Doesn't mean piracy is no concern - I personally am not terribly certain that it actually reduces sales, but its not really possible to prove either way since we have no piracy free test bed...
Edit: My main concern with most DRM schemes is indeed that they mostly inconvenience legit users and don't usually help to combat piracy efficiently, since the arms race is just escalated on both sides and pretty much all DRM can be broken if someone really wants to. Some DRM schemes are more successful in preventing very early pirating though, so that might be another reason for companies looking at opening week(end)/month sales as their milestones to implement them.

I will say no more. But I think that in order to combat piracy, or reduce it significantly, is to have games to only function by vendors like Steam. So that when a game is activated, the Vendors can verify some kind of a key in order to let it run and prove that the game you are playing is the very game you had purchased from them. It is the only way I think to save PC gaming. And I don't want to go to the consoles, that is pretty much foreign to a hardcore gamer.

 

[Mael Sechlainn]

what a ridiculous petition.

Valve and Firaxis are both businesses which have a right to operate in any deal they wish
for their products that they make, no obligation what so ever to please you just cause as
you put it in a rather crude way 'steam is a pile of garbage.'

 

[need my speed]

I will say no more. But I think that in order to combat piracy, or reduce it significantly, is to have games to only function by vendors like Steam. So that when a game is activated, the Vendors can verify some kind of a key in order to let it run and prove that the game you are playing is the very game you had purchased from them. It is the only way I think to save PC gaming. And I don't want to go to the consoles, that is pretty much foreign to a hardcore gamer.

That doesn't work. Every single game is able to be pirated. Modern Warfare 2 can be played online illegally, every game I know about, can be pirated...And I know quite much games.

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I will say no more. But I think that in order to combat piracy, or reduce it significantly, is to have games to only function by vendors like Steam. So that when a game is activated, the Vendors can verify some kind of a key in order to let it run and prove that the game you are playing is the very game you had purchased from them. It is the only way I think to save PC gaming. And I don't want to go to the consoles, that is pretty much foreign to a hardcore gamer.

Anti-Piracy measures don't do much to stop piracy. What they do is convice investors that they are taking steps towards stopping it. It doesn't matter if they're stopping pirates as long as people think they are. Perception is greater than reality, I suppose.

 

[xenobiotic]

IF everyone had your attitude, then yes. You would be correct. But I disagree. Less income for 2K IS less income for 2K.

Less income, but hardly any. This forum has 180,000 members. Lets say a quarter of them are unique people who would buy civ5, but boycott due to steam. So steam results in a loss of 45,000 sales. I think its fair to say these figures are very generous.

Civ4 sold 3 million copies as of 2008. Lets say civ5 is similarily succesful, this would work of to a loss of ~1%. However, because of steam, civ5 would certainly have better protection against piracy than civ4. A search of torrent sites reveals 1000's of people seeding civ4 almost 5 years after release. The total number of downloaded copies of civ4 is indeterminable, but considering the number that are still up it would be hard to imagine less than 45,000 being downloaded.