Anti-Warmonger Fervor
- Thread starter CrazyG
- Start date
LukaSlovenia29
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2016
- Messages
- 1,500
I too have often had a strong bonus against me, much stronger than I'd anticipate. I'd love to hear how it's calculated, how can it be lowered, what to do to avoid raising it etc.
Moi Magnus
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2015
- Messages
- 1,867
To my knowledge, it is:
+ War declaration
+ Conquering cities (depending on the economic value of the city. If the war is defensive, the value is lowered)
The only way to decrease it I know is liberating cities (and passage of time).
+ War declaration
+ Conquering cities (depending on the economic value of the city. If the war is defensive, the value is lowered)
The only way to decrease it I know is liberating cities (and passage of time).
ElliotS
Warmonger
I would like to see the following changes:
Decays a bit faster.
You lose it when you lose cities.
It seems to stack up pretty quickly, and I think these would make it feel more fair.
Decays a bit faster.
You lose it when you lose cities.
It seems to stack up pretty quickly, and I think these would make it feel more fair.
pineappledan
Deity
I still like the idea of incorporating it into influence, so each level of influence is a flat modifier, up to -15% anti-marmonger fervor
Code:
// --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
int CvUnit::GetResistancePower(const CvUnit* pOtherUnit) const
{
int iResistance = 0;
if(MOD_BALANCE_CORE_MILITARY_RESISTANCE)
{
if (pOtherUnit->getOwner() == NO_PLAYER)
return 0;
if (pOtherUnit->isBarbarian() || isBarbarian())
return 0;
if (GET_PLAYER(pOtherUnit->getOwner()).isMinorCiv() || GET_PLAYER(getOwner()).isMinorCiv())
return 0;
if (plot()->getOwner() == pOtherUnit->getOwner())
return 0;
iResistance = GET_PLAYER(getOwner()).GetDominationResistance(pOtherUnit->getOwner());
//Not our territory?
if (plot()->getOwner() == NO_PLAYER)
iResistance /= 2;
}
return iResistance;
}and
Code:
int CvPlayer::GetDominationResistance(PlayerTypes ePlayer)
{
if (ePlayer == NO_PLAYER)
return 0;
int iHandicap = 5;
if (GET_PLAYER(ePlayer).isHuman())
{
iHandicap = GC.getGame().getHandicapInfo().getAIDifficultyBonusBase();
}
int iMaxThreshold = GC.getWARMONGER_THREAT_CRITICAL_THRESHOLD() * 100;
iMaxThreshold /= max(1, iHandicap);
int iResistance = GetDiplomacyAI()->GetOtherPlayerWarmongerAmount(ePlayer);
iResistance *= 100;
iResistance /= max(1, iMaxThreshold);
return min((iHandicap * iHandicap), iResistance);
}
Code:
"WARMONGER_THREAT_CRITICAL_THRESHOLD" "160"G
I can't exactly understand the code, but at some point the civ's opinion of me is taking an effect, yes? I can telll because I don't have the same penalty against all civs. Its letting civs such as Germany who really dislike warmongers get enormous bonuses when the other guy has barely done anything.
From my Aztec photojournal, Greece actually had a lower anti-warmonger fervor than Austria did. I fought Greece after taking all of Austria's cities, but we were friendly most of the game.
From my Aztec photojournal, Greece actually had a lower anti-warmonger fervor than Austria did. I fought Greece after taking all of Austria's cities, but we were friendly most of the game.
Warmonger 'raw' value != warmonger diplo penalty. The raw score works the same for all players, but is affected by things like relative size and proximity. So weak neighbors get spooked more easily than same-size rivals. There is nothing 'AI unique' in the warmonger code anymore, so it's not an AI-variable thing.
G
Ok, what does equal "anti warmonger fervor".
Is it raw warmonger? Warmonger diplo penalty? Or something else?
Second question would be, why is it so high when I haven't taken a city (I've declared war twice in 200 turns).
tu_79
Deity
Disclaimer: Not read that code. I wasn't really interested.
I guess that will depend on how much influence I have with the other civ. Nobody wants to be invaded by an alien culture. Well, nobody wants to be invaded, but sometimes there's acceptance by a part of the society when said invader has a culture we prefer over ours. And I'll add a sligth bit for not sharing ideologies.
Also, if I know that this county has a big military compared to their territory, I know he comes not for pillaging, but for conquering. I dislike being robbed, but I dislike even more to lose my home.
I don't know what will be a good max value. Maybe 25%?
Joining both things, I'd say it can be fine that warmonger fervor varies from 0 when both army/cities ratio is the same, to 25% CS when the aggressor army/city ratio is double or bigger than the defender. Then reduced by cultural influence up the 50% of warmonger fervor base value, and reduced another 20% when ideology is shared. This way, attacking a civ who is completely influenced will not have a warmonger fervor bonus bigger than +12% CS, and no bigger than +10% CS when sharing ideology. This must make more difficult early fights while ease late game wars.
Moi Magnus
Emperor
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2015
- Messages
- 1,867
In short:
The bonus is equal to the minimum between:
+ "Warmonger score"
+ "Difficulty level^2" against the Human, "25" against the AIs
tu_79
Deity
Thanks.
So, for deity it's warmonger score, caped at 49. Then it all comes to how warmonger score is obtained. It was changed recently to something like I was saying, but not sure if it includes the influence thing.
If I have not taken a city yet, it should be between 0 and 5.
tu_79
Deity
That should be easy. Add a line saying that if the player has not captured any cities, then warmonger score is 0. There can be an issue when the player razes every captured city, making it easier for OCC, I guess.
Before we start talking about
The thing is by the time you are capturing cities you have likely already killed a good amount of their forces with your powerful well equipped force.
The point is not just to measure what you have done, but what you could do. If your force looks like it can “end my civilization” and we are at war...than I have to fight for all I’ve got.
This is also part of the TALL balance right now. Tradition players get a defensive boost because of this mechanic. If I don’t get the boost until one of my few key cities is taken...I’m in big trouble
The thing is by the time you are capturing cities you have likely already killed a good amount of their forces with your powerful well equipped force.
The point is not just to measure what you have done, but what you could do. If your force looks like it can “end my civilization” and we are at war...than I have to fight for all I’ve got.
This is also part of the TALL balance right now. Tradition players get a defensive boost because of this mechanic. If I don’t get the boost until one of my few key cities is taken...I’m in big trouble
If the civ attacking you has not taken any cities, he isn't a warmonger yet. You shouldn't be receiving an anti-warmonger bonus.
I don't mean a city in this war, I mean never captured a city at all, period, all game long. I'm not a warmonger, my neighbor shouldn't get a 22% anti-warmonger bonus
If you have built an army capable of crushing my cities to the dirt and you declare war....I might think you are.
But that is flavor semantics, lets look at the balance of this mechanic. The goal was to delay domination players and give smaller civs some protection against the huge armies of larger civs. Is the mechanic doing that job in a reasonable way?
No, in my current game it is giving a larger civ, who has fought far more wars than I, a huge bonus against me. My army is smaller than his, he declared war on me. He has a 22% bonus. I had another game where I declared war on Germany, pillaged one trade route, then he had an 11% bonus against me. It constantly gives enormous bonuses to AI in situations where you aren't a warmonger at all. I take a single, 2 population city that he settled the turn was declared and my penalty is up to 30%.
That is half of the maximum after taking 1 useless city.
This system was suggested a replacement for the old punishment for holding capitals. I really prefer the old system as the mechanic was clear, it would only affect a true warmonger, and you could avoid it if you wanted. This replacement system has been dramatically higher in all situations.
This I agree with. If the bonuses are such in these cases than it looks like the mechanic needs adjustment.
