Cloud_Strife
Deity
No, not really.
Antifa rocks!
- Thread starter Estebonrober
- Start date
- Status
No, not really.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
I've cited counter examples that clearly show it needn't be the case. And i've discussed how counter-productive I think your attitude is already. Look at the case of Germany, where far-right groups are regularly banned and holocaust denial is a crime. This does not in any way stop the far right from recruiting and it persists at a level of a few tens of thousands in the population. Can you offer any examples of banned ideas actually disappearing? Banning ideas has exactly a zero percent record of success around the world so far as I am aware.
*shrug* So is everyone else.
According to wiki, the transgender population of the US is about 1.4 million. The murder rate is about 4.9 per 100,000 so we'd expect almost 70 homicides of trans people in the US annually. The number of murders of trans-person listed on another wiki page is about 20 annually. I know going by confirmed instances is less than ideal, but i'd assume that there is an attempt to be complete and it is a third the average rate. Sorry to be the bearer of good news, but you seem to be safer than you thought.
Rubbish, precisely nobody has told you you can't voice your opinion of your political opponents as loudly as you like.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,652
How can you interpret people advocating against restricting speech to be telling you to sit down and be quiet?
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Because the end result is the enabling of the status quo.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
More good news! You have freedom of speech, get out there, make some noise, change that status quo!
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Unfortunately moderates like yourself are all too willing to use us as bargaining chips, to abandon us when it is no longer politically expedient to stand with us, when it becomes a hassle.
But then again you already know this.
None of that matters though when me merely existing let alone being vocal about it, puts me in danger and at risk.
But then again you already know this.
None of that matters though when me merely existing let alone being vocal about it, puts me in danger and at risk.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,652
Well look. If the status quo is "everyone has the right to representation before a criminal tribunal", and your idea of "improvement" is "not everyone has the right to representation before a criminal tribunal", then I'm totally fine with that.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Only if you are a fascist or prejudiced.
brennan
Argumentative Brit
It is noticeable that as the argument progresses you are more and more likely to start ignoring it and making nonsensical appeals to emotion. Who has used transgender people as bargaining chips? Why are you simply ignoring the data on homicides I cited? Where are those examples of the rights of fascists being directly at odds with your rights that I requested yesterday? Why are you completely blanking arguments that show your fears about tolerance helping fascism seem unfounded?
Sorry you can't wrap your brain around our constitution. IT's what gives you your current freedoms to express your sexuality.
Think of all the protesters it took you to get that right. Many people felt intimidated by those marches and many wished them ill will.
I guess it's good that we just didn't try to eliminate all of them.
I guess you like playing the victim too much.
I've marched in protest to Nazi's, have you?
Being intimidated is no excuse to not going out and do it.
I've protested many thing that intimidated me.
IT's how you get eventual change.
Yeah, they're dicks, but as long as they don't cross the line, it's their right to be dicks.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
How are my fears unfounded when fascism and prejudice is on the rise? How do you square what minorities are saying with your data? Are they lying, are they pretending?
Even in Britain, especially post brexit, hate crimes have increased, culminating in a politician being stabbed to death by a man with fascist and prejudicial leanings, all because the media and people tolerated and enabled the worst on society and listened to their lies, your own country is going through a similar problem where filth and bile was allowed to take hold in the publics mind, where prejudice wasn't fought but tacitly spread, or does that compute in your mind?
Even in Britain, especially post brexit, hate crimes have increased, culminating in a politician being stabbed to death by a man with fascist and prejudicial leanings, all because the media and people tolerated and enabled the worst on society and listened to their lies, your own country is going through a similar problem where filth and bile was allowed to take hold in the publics mind, where prejudice wasn't fought but tacitly spread, or does that compute in your mind?
Cloud_Strife
Deity
We both know that minorities rights are often compromised and contingent on how much we are tolerated and accepted by society. Why wouldn't I be against free speech for fascists and prejudice if it meant materially damaging my wellbeing both physically and legally?
That is what you do not get, that minorities rights are not set in stone and can be taken away and reduced far more easily than granting them in the first place.
We have a constant assault on our rights by the GOP but you ignore that because you naively believe they have accepted our existence.
Eventual change isnt good enough when people are being harmed and killed in this year alone. It just isn't and it's a delaying tactic used by the majority because they're uncomfortable with any sort of social and legal progress. Just look at what happened with SSM, there was no actual reason to exclude it, but people were too uncomfortable extending their rights to LGBT people and during that time alot of lgbt people suffered for no other reason than selfishness on society's part.
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,652
Right. So only some people then. Instead of no people. Still not seeing the improvement.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Well of course YOU wouldn't.
You don't need to worry though, as long as you're not a fascist or prejudiced.
Where did I say your fears were unfounded. We're talking about the bedrock of our country. Gays are not the only group that has been targeted by protesters throughout history. Blacks, women, other minorities and many others, You are not the first, so you don't get special treatment. If it goes past protesting it becomes illegal and then the authorities should act. You should be spending your time making sure or protesting that the authorities do that when it happens, just like all those persecuted before you. Yes other minorities are still working at it. It will not happen overnight. But to do it any other way is unlawful.
People that believe this doesn't mean they are supporting it. And insulting people isn't how you make them anymore sympathetic to your cause. So you may want to be a tad more diplomatic about it yourself. You may be doing your community more damage than helping it.
If you want to march to change the constitution, that is also your right.
People that believe this doesn't mean they are supporting it. And insulting people isn't how you make them anymore sympathetic to your cause. So you may want to be a tad more diplomatic about it yourself. You may be doing your community more damage than helping it.
If you want to march to change the constitution, that is also your right.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
I can't possibly be doing more damage to my community then the same people who accept and allow anti lgbt speech and their view havers to spread.
That actually results in actual tangible damage, my vocalness is at worst an annoyance to you and people like you, usually because you don't like being reminded that not all of us are appeased with the scraps that society has so far given us.
That actually results in actual tangible damage, my vocalness is at worst an annoyance to you and people like you, usually because you don't like being reminded that not all of us are appeased with the scraps that society has so far given us.
So soon you forget all the non community members that have supported your rights and helped you win them.
It quite insulting that you just turn around and call them all Nazi supporters. Shame on you.
You don't deserve a respectful discussion.
It quite insulting that you just turn around and call them all Nazi supporters. Shame on you.
You don't deserve a respectful discussion.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
Stop lying, I said they enabled nazis.
Moderator Action: This thread has pretty much run its course, IMHO. We've gone from Antifa to petty bickering. I even said twice upthread that if you want to discuss LGBT rights and freedoms, etc. that you do it in a thread dedicated for that purpose. This thread has been seriously derailed and it is being closed.
- Status
Similar threads
