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Any hope of 'Capture Capital, Cause Civil War'?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by o1derfull1, Oct 14, 2010.

  1. o1derfull1

    o1derfull1 Libertarian Elitist

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    I seem remember from CivI or maybe CivII, when there was a chance that if you took an AI capital, and there were other cities of that empire left, there was a chance of causing a civil war, basically giving approximately half of the remaining cities over to a 'new' AI Civ.

    Does anyone else remember this? I thought it was a fun and itneresting mechanic.

    Would it be possible to do this in CiV perhaps via modding?
     
  2. scl004

    scl004 Chieftain

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    I think you could do it in vanilla Civ III. That was an awesome feature i'd love to see return.
     
  3. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

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    I don't think this was in Civ I or Civ II... In Colonization, one power would eventually withdraw from the new world and give away everything to another AI...
     
  4. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    Yes, it was in CivI. Definitely.
    I'm not sure about Civ2, and I'm pretty sure it never appeared in any other iteration of the serie (which is a shame).
    But it was in CivI, 100 % absolutely certain.
     
  5. Melchizel

    Melchizel Chieftain

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    It was in Civ 3.
     
  6. o1derfull1

    o1derfull1 Libertarian Elitist

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    I'm not sure which iteration of Civ it was in, but i know it wasn't colonization, I never had that game.

    When you captured an enemy capital, and it had maybe 6 or 8 cities minimum, about half those cities, and half its military units would suddenly become one of the civs that werent in your game.

    So if you had a 3 player game going with the US the UK and Germany, and you captured Berlin with Germany still having 8 cities you havent captured yet, the next time it was Germany's turn, 3-4 cities which were German cities would suddenly become Aztec cities and from that point on would act as a full fleged independent empire in game.
     
  7. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    It was in civ2 for a fact. I used this strategy once when going up against a superior tech civ. I split them into two and they never were the same afterwords.
     
  8. drachasor

    drachasor The Undying Flame

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    Seems like a silly mechanic.

    I'd rather have a system where large empires have more internal problems to worry about. Civ has always been lacking in this regard, but it would be the natural balance point to the power of large civs.
     
  9. o1derfull1

    o1derfull1 Libertarian Elitist

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    I appreciated it because it was random. It didn't ALWAYS happen. There was jsut a chance, that under specific conditions, it MIGHT happen. Your whole plan for victory or for war could change dramatically.

    I remember one of my earliest games where I let my capital get taken and it happened to me. I was soooo angry that i had to keep fighting whoever i was at war with AND retake my cities... but it was an intense game and it was challenging and it kept me enthralled as i slowly exacted my revenge.

    Also as a builder and tech-er it helped me once or twice when I was behind in military strength but had slightly better tech than a leading AI. I would go and take his capital, not having enough units to fight a full on war, and hopefully split his empire. If that happened, I got some breathing room while he fought his rebellious cities and I was able to catch up in military strength.
     
  10. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

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    I have never seen this, yet I'd say that I've played Civ II more than any other Civ game. Are you really sure this was in the vanilla Civ II (not the expansion, not any patches and not Call to Power)?

    The only thing I remember is that the French or the Vikings would show up if you eliminated the Germans early, but only with a couple of settlers.
     
  11. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    No it wasn't. But it was in Civ2. Nothing like playing the Civ2 Civil War scenario, capture Richmond, and have Germany appear with half the cities.

    Anyway, it's an annoying feature more than anything else. Capitols are already pretty important in this game. I don't see the point of adding this. Besides, what historical situations does capturing a capital triggering a civil war represent?

    However, there is a bug in a scenario that causes City States to go into Civil Wars and literally start fighting their own units :D

    EDIT: I should add that I have Civ2: Multiplayer Gold Edition if that makes a difference.
     
  12. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

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    Wait... a scenario? I've never played those. I don't think the feature you are talking about is in the actual game.
     
  13. Abegweit

    Abegweit Anarchist trader

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    I'm pretty sure it was in CIV 1. Maybe CIV 2 (or both?) Anyway the rule was that when the largest civ lost its capital, it split in two. It was an interesting mechanic allowing for a come-from-behind win.
     
  14. o1derfull1

    o1derfull1 Libertarian Elitist

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    The point of adding it would be the unexpected factor. The monkey wrench to your meticulously laid out strategic plans for victory or warmongering. Thought you had the game sewn up? All your ducks in a row? Just need to capture this capital for easy domination victory? Nope! Look what just happened! Now you may need to fight two enemies on two fronts with two different diplomatic statuses and two of their own victory goals.

    I can think of a couple. Often this 'rebellious' faction was seen as partisans or treated as illegitimate government in the real world. (Think of the French resistance in WII...) But for specific examples of 'capture city capital create a new opponent, look at Eastern and Western Roman EMpires post gothic invasion. Look at China prior to and post the manchu invasion. Or even back to the fall of jerusalem when the kingdom of judah was conquered but even though the capital fell and the nation with it, the jewish people continued to fight, and held on to several smaller outlying towns and cities and resisted occupation. Also think of what would ahve happened to Russia if Napoleon and/or Hilter had conquered Moscow. You really think Belarusians, Ukrainians, Georgans, etc wouldnt have proclaimed in dependence and create new states?

    History is full of examples of a conqueror sacking or annexing a large capital city which 'should' result in the capitulation of the entire empire, but in reality it fractionalized the citizens of that empire into loyalists and rebels. Some want the war to be over, or think that victory cant be achieved or are willing to submit to their conquerors or believe that further fighting will make the occupation worse and so agree in spirit to the conquest. Others might feel that it better to die than live in subjugation or are super patriotic and want to continue to fight for freedom or to reestablish their state.

    Also
    It happened in actual games. Now it's been forever so i dont remember exactly, but I'm pretty sure I played with the expansions and patches. So vanilla Civ2 maybe not, but definetly patched and expanded Civ2.

    Also this :)
    I agree!
     
  15. }{ELL/\/()

    }{ELL/\/() Warlord

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    it could be interesting but it doesnt fit with the new domination mechanic which encourages you to target capitols first. If the domination was old style (pop or land % or elim a certain # it could)
     
  16. Bad Brett

    Bad Brett King

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    I guess that is why I never saw it then. Civ II was really easy even on the hardest difficulty level. I always used ICS so I was always the biggest Civ. And I don't think I've ever lost my capital (except occasionally in the beginning when the barbarians came :mischief:)
     
  17. Mango Elephant

    Mango Elephant Deity

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    Civil wars would be cool. IMPLEMENT THEM, PLZ! :)
     
  18. o1derfull1

    o1derfull1 Libertarian Elitist

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    I can see how it could. Say I conquer Berlin in the previous scenario I described, assuming I have domination victory enabled, I'd get a little check in the victory conditions next to that capital, BUT when the Aztecs appear, they get one of the German cities, that are now Aztec cities, as THEIR capital. So that means if I want the domination victory i have to go and take their capital now too to get that check next to 'Aztec Capital'
     
  19. pickle

    pickle Lord of the Preserves

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    This. the possibility of a civil war in a big empire would be great might help stop the snowballing where you wind up with a massive civ on each continent and nothing else
     
  20. OtterVomit

    OtterVomit Chieftain

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    It most certainly was in Civ1. My strategy when facing a superior opponent was to make a b-line for their capital and split their empire (also stealing a technology). They would always sue for peace afterwards.
     

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