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any news on january update ?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Karmah, Jan 12, 2021.

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  1. Buktu

    Buktu Prince

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    If you scroll down (to the references section, not that the page is long atm anyway) a bit you can find:

    "It is also worth nothing that there is a likely chance Kublai Khan will lead China as well."
     
  2. Kaan Boztepe

    Kaan Boztepe Prince

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    just out of curiosity why are we focused on china only , when Kublai also ruled over the areas of Persia , Korea , Georgia and Scythia too
     
  3. notNamed

    notNamed Warlord

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    He did not. His empire, the Yuan Dynasty, basically engulfed China and stuff around it, but far-off places like Persia or Georgia were under different khans and Scythia didn't exist anymore.
    This leaves you with Korea and that was ruled by his family (EDIT: Goryeo royal family married women from the royal court, making the Goryeo princes his Kublai's nephews and so on for later generations), not him personally.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  4. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Not to mention he moved his capital(s) to China and made it the center of his empire.
     
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  5. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Indeed. He was recognized as an Emperor of China, but was never recognized as the Emperor of Georgia or Persia.
     
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  6. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    I object to this notion! Goryeo was never under Kublai's direct rule. we were forced to marry into his family BUT never were his "lands" to rule. Goryeo had some autonomy.
     
  7. Lord Lakely

    Lord Lakely Idea Fountain

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    Sure, why not. 'Kublai Khan leads Any Civ in Sid Meier's Civilization Six'. Why not spec on that as well? After all, it is still possible.

    Firaxis better not delay that announcement. The rampant spec is starting to strike fear into my heart.
     
  8. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    As much as it would add historical factuality, I'm not so sure adding Kublai Khan to China would be viewed in the same light as England and France having the same ruler. Apart from time difference, it'd be as adding Stalin as a ruler of Poland.
     
  9. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    Yuan Dynasty under Kublai Khan is PART of Chinese history. It is one of those weird times when two different nations were united under one government... Heck even after Yuan Dynasty many Chinese emperors still claimed to be part of Mongol Khans. For example in Quin Dynasty, Emperors still claimed the title of Mongal Khans even though they were Manchus. It was only after fall of Quin Dynasty that Mongal and China became a separate nations.
    Not to mention it is an insult to compare Kublai Khan to Stalin... Heck he was nowhere bad as his GRANDFATHER Ghengis Khan, let alone Stalin.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2021
  10. notNamed

    notNamed Warlord

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    That's not really an apt comparison, given that Stalin never ruled Poland, only had large influence on it. United States has a large influence on many states today but no one would really even consider similar arrangements with, say, JFK from CivRev2.
    I would actually find Poland led by Nicholas II to be a pretty neat idea, though that is a fairly subjective topic. Delineating, for instance, that Bismarck is not a valid alt. Polish leader for reasons, why any future Han-Tang emperors wouldn't be fit as alt. leaders for Vietnam even though they are a part of Vietnamese dynastology like anyone else... it's simply my own opinion that I do not see Vietnam as an entity during that time any more than I see Caesar as a leader of France. But all that is, as I said, a subjective assessment.

    Yuan is most definitely a part of Chinese history, but I'd correct you on the other thing. The divide between what is and isn't Mongol was a large topic for the Ming (the dynasty tha usurped Yuan). Ming never conquered the Mongolian territories of the Northern Yuan (if you look at a map of Ming, they never go beyond the Great Wall, modern Inner/Outer Mongolia was simply not in their sphere of power) and were strongly anti-Yuanist. They only set up bureaus whose task was to keep playing the various northern tribes/clans/kingdoms against each other to prevent the next Genghis Khan from ever forming and repeating what Yuan had achieved. This all comes around to the Qing (Manchu) dynasty. These had fairly big expansionist policy (Ming had its own expansionist ventures like the brief conquest of Vietnam, but nothing on the same sort of scale and ambition) and it was during their rule that Chinese Empire actually conquered and incorporated Mongolia into the state again. That is until the PRC and USSR came to recognise modern Mongolia as a sovereign state to create a reasonable buffer zone between them.
     
  11. blackbutterfly

    blackbutterfly King

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    Wiki is fan produced, I am told.

    More significantly, is if we will see some rebalance to China, if Kublai Khan is its leader. The Great Wall UI is in dire need of rebalance. It is IMO the hardest UI in Civ VI to use. The biggest limitation is only being able to construct it on your borders. Micromanagement nightmare.
     
  12. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    You’re right, it was a hasty comparison on my part and not a good one. But I think you get the point.
     
  13. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I wonder if on Tuesday's video they will announce if Kublai Khan leads two civs, just one, or not bother saying anything and keeping it a surprise? If not here's hoping that his first look is on Thursday. :mischief:

    I feel like we'll get screenshots of him leading Mongolia definitely though and end up at least seeing one of, if not several of, Vietnam's UU/UI/ a blurry leader portrait.
     
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  14. Buktu

    Buktu Prince

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    Well yeah, the page is fan made, but all they are saying is there is a chance he leads China, too. Nothing definite.

    And a little change to the great wall would be nice. Maybe something like can't be build next to city centers or next to 2 other tiles with the great wall improvement (to prevent clustering them for insane yields).
     
  15. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    what point?
     
  16. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    So far fxs stuck to leaders that represent political entities not connected to obvious conquests, it kind of let those come from actual gameplay.

    While Stalin is a bad example, perhaps queen Victoria as a leader for India would be a better example of something I don’t expect to happen.
     
  17. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

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    There has been no confirmation on either.

    It specifically states RF is required, why would that be the case if he could also lead China? Then those without RF only get the Chinese Kublai, while those with RF get both.

    Which makes me think that he is Mongolia's alt leader only.
     
  18. Kupe Navigator

    Kupe Navigator Emperor

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    1. There never has been "british" civ only England civ. ( that is why we have Scotland even though Scotland is part of Britian)
    2. Mongols and China are very close culturally.
    If we can have the same leaders for England and France, I don't see what is big deal about having the same leader for China and Mongal.

    what about Elenor? Can you play as her without GS?
     
  19. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    Do you mean without the GS setting? If so... Maybe, I haven't really given attention to that. :p
     
  20. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso King

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    I think, when they say "X expansion is needed for this", it means that if you want to experiment the full scope of this mini-expansion, you'd have to have expansion X as well.

    Having a leader with different clothes leading an entire different civilization is not the same thing as the ethipian rockhewn church having a footnote bonus when you go from Vanilla to GS.

    Look at it the other way. Let's suppose they never specified the January update needed R&F. Then they reveal it, and say that Kublai Khan leads China and Mongolia. You would see a lot of people saying: "Wait, if I want to use all the scope of Kublai Khan I need R&F to use him with Mongolia! But you never warned us! That's false advertisement!".

    If have to look at each alt leader like two separate leaders. Like in GS we had 10 leaders, because we had Freleanor and Engleanor. Here, it would be the same: the January update come with one civ and three new leaders: Vietnam's leader, Kublai Mong and Kublai Chin. And since one of those "three" leaders can only be played with R&F Mongolia, then they have to precise that R&F is necessary for the January update.

    I clearly don't see why the "R&F is necessary" argument prevents Kublai Khan to lead China. Especially if his LUA is eurekas+inspirations through trade route, which will combo perfectly with both Mongolia's and China's CUA. It would be a terribly missed opportunity.
     
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