Any point in building a Navy?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by acinod, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. acinod

    acinod Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    This applies to all maps (including Archipelago); since the AI rarely builds any ships, is it even worth building a Navy?

    When should you build a Navy?

    What are the benefits of building a Navy?
     
  2. Lanstro

    Lanstro Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    325
    Playing continents, I tend to build at least 2-3 frigates and caravels (and upgrade them if necessary). You need them to escort your land army to islands that have barbarian galleys sailing around. They're also fairly decent ranged support for your land troops when war breaks out. It shuts down any sort of embarkment-dependent deployment for the AI: can't argue with free kills.

    In my non-domination victory games, I've found them useful for fighting far-off enemies who are threatening my allied city states. Just park them near the city state being invaded, and bombard the AI Civ every turn. Quickly defuses the threat. May even get a great general out of it for golden age.
     
  3. delra

    delra Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    180
    Bombardment is very powerful when you arrive at a continent where every hex is enemy unit and there even are a few boats afloat around because they didn't have space to park them on land. If I play continents I treat navy as artillery.
     
  4. qyll

    qyll Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2010
    Messages:
    344
    Navies are essential for intercontinental invasions where you need to take a coastal city fast so that you have some breathing room to maneuver around. After that, they can act like artillery by softening up units from the sea. All in all, very very helpful.
     
  5. aimlessgun

    aimlessgun King

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2010
    Messages:
    782
    Another thing to note, if you're beelining Mech-Inf, Artillery are not on the way...but battleships are. On a water heavy map they're like better artillery: more mobile, can move and shoot, basically indestructible by the AI.
     
  6. delra

    delra Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    180
    In general everything that's on two lower rows of the tech tree seems to come late for me, this includes Musketeers, Cannons and Lancers. While I quickly get good ships slingshotting the edu part of the tree and bee-lining coal and Cavalry (because my army is typically horses), techs in the "industrial" part of the tree are left behind. So it's easier to come and bombard enemy with a bunch of ships tech-wise than change all the priorities in your research just to get cannons while they still matter and then build them instead of actual combat troops.
     
  7. Gath

    Gath Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    221
    Bombardments are nice, but very situational until battleships. I mostly just keep a large enough navy to knock out barbarian galleys if they're a problem. Never seen the AI mount an invasion to save his life. Upgraded caravels make the best destroyers.
     
  8. Stefanskantine

    Stefanskantine Angry Partisan

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2003
    Messages:
    242
    Location:
    Busan, ROK
    I am currently playing Immortal with Sulieman, raging barbarians on a large Terra. I have a huge fleet of frigates which I upgraded from converted Barbary Corsairs (all told I've probably recruited at least 50 galleys, maybe more. The excess I disbanded for gold or gifted to CS). I am running a naval empire, all cities coastal or on small islands connected only by harbors (no roads).

    I move my units up and down the coast, aided by the Naval Tradition SP (unfortunately the bastard Hiawatha beat me to the lighthouse by 2 turns, or it would have been even faster). My unquestioned naval supremacy protects all my troops while moving. In some cases it's actually quite a bit faster to move them this way, as I can cut across bays and so on.

    My frigates are a really mobile bombardment force. They are quite advanced for their time thanks to lightbulbing to navigation. I am about to mount a lightning amphibious campaign against my closest rivals in score, Egypt, and later, Iroquois and Arabia, using frigates and Jannisaries, taking only coastal cities and capitals.

    So in this case the navy is key to my strategy, regardless of the level of naval opposition. I don't know if this is an "optimal" strategy or not, but it sure is fun.
     
  9. acinod

    acinod Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    18
    I think this all comes down to the question, beat him at his own game, or beat him at another game.

    Should I have a 5 land units and 5 ships against his 10 land units, or 10 land units and no navy?
     
  10. haroon

    haroon Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2010
    Messages:
    3,984
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Crazy Mountain
    they are killers, in my latest game my 7 battleship kill 50 or more liz anti air gun, anti tank, mech inf, giant death robot, mobile artilery, her gunship and many more. i only send 2 mech inf and 1 cavalary also 1 gunship to occupy the city.

    My military advisor said

    "she got an upper hand on military, we should bargain for peace as soon as possible!"

    after i send my battleship he said

    "with our number we blababla"

    they are very useful because

    1. AI rarely build a naval
    2. They can kill land unit in flat terrain only for 2 shot.
    3. They can (battleship) bombard city defend without being hit.
    4. etc
    5. etc
    6. etc

    so build them, that is my advice
     
  11. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,322
    On continents, some ships have a worth, to scout ahead of your invasion force. On archipelago ships are great because they can bombard most tiles. On pangaea they are obviously quite useless apart from the odd one or two for barb bashing.
     
  12. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    26,046
    Boats have way more mobility than land units and don't struggle with chokes.

    Even the lowly trireme, with ranged str 4, isn't bad because you can generally move 4+ into range of a city with ease and use them to pound on land units w/ less fear of melee retaliation...a lot less. Obviously late in the game water units go crazy and can take over most siege duty on a lot of maps ----> continents, fractal, archipelago, large portions of the earth map, 4 corners, etc etc.

    People always underrate naval units. They were a big deal in civ IV, too. Once you cut down the AI naval SoD in that game, you had excessively mobile bombardment and could easily fork cities (late game you even had fighters to soften defenses for amphibious). The exact same can be done in V as far as I can tell, although late game turns are long and beating that 1 continent AI is enough of a pain that usually diplo starts looking more fun to just end it (The AI is bad at buying off city states).
     
  13. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,226
    Location:
    London
    Everyone has already said it but I'll add my two pence :)

    On archipelgo maps I find ships are my main attacking and defending forces and I build as many frigates and destroyers as I have riflemen and ground troops. There is no real need for cannons and artillery if you have a navy that can move and then fire in the same turn. Cannons are a useful garrison in a city, but you can use a frigate for that too :lol:

    I could take cities on islands with 3 frigates and 1 rifleman. The frigates would sail up and bombard the city, the rifleman would land. Next turn the frigates bombard again and the rifleman walks into the city. Completely painless.

    The best promotions for my frigates were bombardment 2 followed by range (can shoot 3 tiles). That needs 60 exp and allows them to bombard further inland and outranges a city defence.

    Ships are very strong in this version of civ on any map with significant water area. The more coastal cities you and the AI have the bigger navy you should build. Destroyers are cheap (to build or buy) and resourceless and all earlier ships upgrade to them. Start out with some triremes in the early game, kill a few barbs, upgrade them to frigates, build some caravels and go exploring conquering, more barb killing, then upgrade them all to destroyers. You won't be sorry.
     
  14. loveandpolitics

    loveandpolitics Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    Messages:
    72
    Building a navy feels like too much of an exploit since the AI doesn't use naval forces much. They do occasionally build ships, move troops over the water, and build cities on other continents, but these are rare in the first case, and almost never happens in the second in third case. At most a fleet of 3-4 frigates should be enough to act effectively on the seas, without exploiting AI stupidity. Also, naval forces are nice for bombarding, but once again the AI has no idea how to counter them, so use only one or two ships for this, or you'll be exploiting the AI again.

    At least I've tested the above on a Small Continents map on King difficulty.
     
  15. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,322
    The same could be said for any warfare. How do you suppose it should counter the ships, anyways? The only way to do that is put artillery in your cities, and even a human would have to invest very considerable sums of money to do that if his artillery is all fighting somewhere.

    If the AI sent me two battleships and two destroyers, I'd go "oh****oh****o****" and probably try to ignore them, too, while I beat its land armies.
     
  16. CaptainJewbeard

    CaptainJewbeard Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2010
    Messages:
    21
    Location:
    Baltimore
    I agree, on every map with at least as much water as Continents, it's worth investing in at least 3-5 decent ships (to perform all the functions listed above).

    I just started a game as Elizabeth on archipelago; my hope is to expand slowly until I lock in the longbowmen, then rock out with my navy and speed to a swift victory.
     
  17. Sonereal

    Sonereal ♫We got the guillotine♫ Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2008
    Messages:
    14,899
    A Navy is a great thing to have. A carrier group containing a carrier or two of bombers (both atomic or not atomic) and fighters for defense plus battleships and submarines for good measure can take the place of artillery and don't have to worry about terrain and since the range of air units are so great, you can station a carrier or nuclear sub far from the action or even have them in strategic areas.

    The nuclear submarines is probably one of the most powerful units in game simply because they're mostly invisible and can launch two city destroying missiles before the enemy has a chance to get into range.

    Besides, the alternative is building artillery and then having to deal with moving them across water along with the rest of your invasion force.
     
  18. Lyoncet

    Lyoncet Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    1,676
    Location:
    Minnesota
    It's like everybody's figured out that navy is good in most situations in Civ V. Except the AI. :p
     
  19. Cu Chulainn

    Cu Chulainn The Unoriginal

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,377
    Trying an Ottoman game on small continents I built Great Lighthouse and got Naval Tradition very early on my way to merchant navy after a CS slingshot. While I wasn't lucky enough to convert any barb units before abandoning the game I did get an unexpected benefit.

    The extra two sight distance allowed me to make contact with a militaristic city state across the ocean. I threw 500 their way and 17 turns later I had a pike exploring a new continent which sadly turned out to be a small island. The second unit they gave me was a warrior which I was able to upgrade within the CS borders. Had there been anything of value on the "continent" I could have taken over the city state and expanded from there.
     
  20. Beld

    Beld Whiskeyclone

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    80
    Echoing a lot of other people here: Answer is yes

    Even on Pangea I would build 1 or 2 ships.

    You can get a promotion where they can have more bombardment/attack range. With my two boats sitting 1 hex outside of attack range of cities, I can soften up a city for take-over.

    Im my most recent game, i declared on Siam. I had 2 cavalry on his continent, but he had a something like 8 pikes, 3 or 4 swordsmen, 4 crossbowmen, and 2 of his UU elephants. In this case, any two or 3 of them could take me down... the elephants could rip me apart. So I liberated a CS and waited for them to come, with a frigate and a caravel at my back. Had they not been there, that war would have been over. Even with, lets say, one longswordsmen & one pikeman (my best infantry at the time) instead of the two boats. I probaby could have held off the wave of AI since two foot would help me against flanks and mounted units. After I beat a few waves I started going up the coast.

    My frigate was promoted to +1 bombard range, so he would go ahead of my cav and bombard a city, while they were pillaging. They'd arrive and raze the city in one attack. I did this for 4 cities (including some 2 hexes in land!) without stopping for a heal. My caravel parked in the CS and helped bombard (albeit ligtly) the AI sent to retake the CS. Had that been a land unit at the CS, he would have gotten flanked and died a long time ago.
     

Share This Page