Any strategies still work for a peaceful, deity, standard everything, no modes, no mods, no advanced settings T200 Science Victory?

[Benfica9s7]

I've been attempting this challenge for a while now, and I still seem so far away. My best victory so far was turn 220 on Brazil, but for that run I chose my city states to see what would happen, and still didn't get it. I'm going scout->scout->settler->holy site-> settler in my capital, I'm putting holy sites in 5-6 cities that have high adjacencies with Sacred Path, and I'm Taking monumentality and then free inquiry. I'm taking Ancestral Hall and consistently get 12-14 cities before turn 100 but it just doesn't seem to be enough. After the first 6 cities I just go campus first and chop them out. I even suz'd Fez for mid game science because my normal science was too low, suz'd Geneva, and I got the great person that boosts amenities yields(but I struggled with amenities on account of my empire being so big) and +4 to research labs as well. Boosted nearly every tech and it still was way too slow, and I felt like I was lacking in culture all game even with 2-3 high adjacency theater squares and the culture for every 4 followers religious belief. It feels like if I don't take free inquiry my science is way too slow and if I do take it my cities mostly suck, and I'm struggling to get to mercantilism anyway to actually improve most of my land. Any Changes I should make? Or are there better strategies out there?

 

[Pengwin7]

Awesome goal!
I joined the forums about 6 months ago with the same sort of desire - to gain some knowledge - bc my own goal was to win sub200 Culture victories with different AI!
I haven't tried science - as it seems a bit more 'formulaic'... but I could use a break from culture... would love to join you.

This is interesting.
I've heard science in under 200 turns is absolutely brutal - and near impossible - on Deity.
Kudos to you for trying... especially with standard modes. (I play standard everything, no modes, too)

I'd imagine... unfortunately... a lot is luck-based with the CityStates.
Hopefully you can get Kilwa... maybe 3+ science CS (pray the other AI don't take/raze them)... and use that for supplemental science.
As a leader - Pericles (Greece) - might be an option... as he gives 5% Culture on Suz... enormous BONUS... enormous.
I think that would take care of ALL culture for you all-game.

So then, maybe you can play everything else towards: Science.
Hopefully w/Kilwa... especially if several Blue CS... you may need 3+ (what map size do you play? I play standard/8 AI... so there's 12 CS. Getting 3+ Science is probably a 10%-ish odds game, unfortunately)

Generally - I think the "BEST" start possible is to have high-culture... from somewhere... and that's mostly LUCK.
But... I believe the best game one can run is to spawn near Paititi.
The early culture from those interior-tiles absolutely rockets you to Political Philosophy... and Feudalism... and you can do a LOT with an early culture spike.

In the last six months, I've only been able to build Great Library twice... and both times I had Paititi and huge early culture to drive me up.
Best case, I think, for culture/science quick-victory... may include 3 key wonders - Oracle (for cheaper Great People/Engineers), Pyramids (for that extra build charge), Great Library (for help with science boosts).
I got that triple-combo set... just ONCE (ever) - with a Canada start adjacent Paititi... still have that game save (I'd share... but it's on PS4... and I don't believe there's a way to pull the map ID).

But... early culture... a wonder to provide it...
That is your best-case-start...

Unf - this means you either have to:
i) Game the settings to get that... or....
(as I do)
ii) Restart games until it appears


But... I think that's your path: "Early Culture" (needed)...
Everything else you are doing... adjacency pantheon... Holy Sites for that '2nd currency' you can spend on settlers/builders... monumentality for classical-age-mass-settle...
It all seems pretty right.

(I actually don't settle nearly as many cities as many recommend... but I can't speak to whether a group of 10, rather than 12-14... might be better... For science, I'd think "10 quality cities" >> 11+ where the extras aren't high-end)

 

[Benfica9s7]

Its tough to gage whether tall or wide is better, but my experience in the T220 game showed me that I might need even more than 12-14. All those extra cities, like from city 8 and onwards, just go campus first and my goal is to chop and buy all the buildings in the campus so that it can contribute to my science. I do this because going com hub or holy site first feels too slow, I need as much science as quickly as I can get to research techs in 1 or 2 turns witch I really struggled with late game. Those campus cities, with a research lab finished, were giving me around 60-80 science each, so having 4 cities above 10 netted me around 70x4=280 science. It is true that the extra cities strain the amenities in my stronger cities (struggled to keep +3, coliseum city had +5 for the most part) and the cities with pingala and kilwa were both giving me 150+ science, so it is hard to say if the 280 science difference would be made up for with The Ecstatic + Ibn Khaldun amenity boost of 28%. I know I could've played better around my amenities, for instance the same spawn but with a camp in my capital to build TOA and fully utilizing the retainers policy card (made some mistakes here) I probably would have been ecstatic in every city. If I had managed to get 4 more cities with research labs giving me 240+ science I may have been on pace to do it as science was ultimately my limiting factor, or some more culture to hit globalization. I had like 1100 science late game for the record. This game made me believe it can work though, because the spawn wasn't "absolutely" perfect (it was very good though) and I could have micro managed things a bit better, and I also narrowly missed out on oracle.

I've settled near paiti maybe twice myself, and it would definitely help a ton, but I feel like it isn't absolutely necessary for the challenge (maybe, idk).

Unfortunately at a glance I don't see Pericles working (never tried him, could be a bad take) , He has great culture but it appears he lacks the early game tempo required to pump out cities and hit research labs on a decent pace (I've heard turn 145, but I got it on turn 147 and was too slow by 20 turns so maybe it must be even earlier). I may be underrating the power of culture early game, and if you are able to keep up in science to get to research labs then you can surely do it as reaching globalization so fast means you have no issues with science anymore. Let me know how it goes with him if you do try it. Maybe with a god spawn (4-2 spice tiles and high production/ wonder) you can make enough cities.

I settled on brazil because its a great mix of russia's and khmer's strengths. Its start bias is amazing, and while russia has issues growing and the khmer lack early game tempo, Brazil has no issue with either. You get high adjacency holy sites (+20 prod and faith with scripture sometimes-even better than russia-consistently +7-8) and high adjacency campuses for extra science, and commercial hubs as well (easy to get +4 at the least) , which with free inquiry and the policy card for com hubs are massive spikes in science. This allows me to get com hubs in my first few cities and not worry about falling behind in science too much, which allows me to scale later into the game with trade routes.

Maybe I should keep trying with russia and especially khmer because with the khmers huge population and natural culture generation science would be much easier. Issue is their holy site adjacencies suck in comparison and by the time I get some aqueducts for massive faith generation I only have 5-6 cities and its around turn 90 and I'm severely lacking in science. This would force me to take another round of monumentality, but then I'm so slow to research labs... maybe I just need better spawns with adjacencies for the holy sites for more early game tempo.

I was playing on standard +8 size, but I moved down to +6 and feel like it is way easier to snag wonders that I want and great people as well. For now, I'm choosing my city states just to practice and see if it's possible before I go back to no advanced settings which is the real goal.

 

[Pengwin7]

Re-thinking... you are definitely correct on Brazil being good choice. (I retract the Pericles)
The great people discounts with Brazil is great.
It is really good to get Oracle... if you can afford the production (tempo stall) to get it.

The other 'luck' bit is, perhaps, getting Antananarivo as a cultural CityState.
That gives you 2% culture boost per great person... and usually getting 15 is no problem w/Brazil, if you are making an effort towards it.

I played out a sub200 Deity culture game with Brazil within last month - it was great... and included Antananarivo as a CityState.
I also was able to build Oracle. Super smooth & enjoyable game.
I document all my games over last 6 months (page 4/5 in thread below):

P

Thread 'Culture Victories - Under 200 Turns - Deity (Any tips? Faves?)'

Apr 15, 2025

I'm currently extending my enjoyment of Civ 6 by trying to knock out as many culture victories as possible, on Deity, in 200 Turns or less (/500 standard).
Does anybody have any favourite Civs for doing this? And any key tips for that civ? Or in general for FAST culture victories?
[I play GS, standard pace, 7 Seas, standard size (8 civs)... no extra features - HATE the extras like Secret Societies, Heroes, Monopolies, etc.]

Thus far, I've knocked out 5 victories:
1. Russia (198 turns). Lavras / Dance of the Aurora / Work Ethic - get to golden ages.
2. Canada (199 turns). Work the...

• Pengwin7
• Replies: 105
• Forum: Civ6 - General Discussions

Probably, like you, went with SacredPath & WorkEthic for religion boost (of HS w/rainforest) into production.
The difference, of course, is that I'm targeting Culture Victory from start.
(My games usually finish at about 200science/800-1000culture at t200. Nowhere close to the science needed for Mars mission!!!)

Paititi is probably best as a "City2" sort of wonder... but close enough to get to it fast and for its culture to be significant.
I also had a sub200 Deity culture win with Sweden within last 6 months and used that wonder to rush early culture.

The benefit of the 'early culture' - as you probably know - is that you need builder charges to gain pace... but every builder bought magnifies cost/prod.
So, ideally you want to burn as few 3-charge Builders as possible... and only buy for 5-charge Builders (maybe 6 w/Pyramids, 7 w/Liang).
So... racing to Feudalism is critical. You can - obviously - do so.much.more - with 5/6/7 charge builders.


For me... any game... early culture gain, fast PoliticalPhilosophy gov't, fast Feudalism, is one of 3-4 key things I need for a 'fast victory'.
As a benchmark, start writing down how fast you get to those two Civics.
And see if those two benchmark Civic completions also dictate when you finish your game.

 

[Benfica9s7]

Yeah, Brazil is not consistent (Deity AI often takes sacred path EVEN BEFORE religious settlements and it pisses me off) but when you get the perfect start I don't know any other civ that can compete with +10 holy sites and high adjacency campuses, thtr squares, and com hubs, as well as the superior ability to acquire GP.

I've been choosing antenevaro in my 9 CS selection as well as the 10% culture from building completion one but it had like 8 envoys by the time I found it and I had needed so much of my envoy economy for taruga fez geneva and mitla that I had such little left over and couldnt get it.

I feel like brazil is unique in that the feudalism spike isn't nearly as powerful as other civs initially. Obviously it is of utmost importance to have 5 charge builders and the math supports that but brazils cities are often 70% rainforest, and you dont want to chop them because of adjacencies... so you have to wait until mercantalism to improve a lot of your empire. I still need to tweak some stuff about my strategy regarding this as i feel like i can optomize something here.

I have to start documenting those breakpoints like you said, it could be very useful.

A lot of the advice in the thread you made revolves around domination, witch fits perfectly into the brazil strategy, but unfortunately as an added part of the challenge I wanted to achieve the T200 completely peaceful. Maybe one game i will try religion/dom/science just for fun.

 

[Pengwin7]

^I, typically, play peaceful.
But there is another person - Oberin - he is really smart... but his method of play is to use early war/Crusade to take some cities - and start a 'snowball'.
If you are like me... that's just not hitting... so you prefer to stay peaceful.

[I will say, I occasionally use a scout - now - to steal settlers... if they are available at other AI land... and then once I do that - which is 'declaring war' - I try to use scout to pillage a few tiles/districts... if they are available. That can often be really helpful, especially if the tile has 'culture' to it.]

re: Brazil.
Right... the rainforest means you are NOT chopping... and that's hard to stomach.
So... yes, maybe you need leader with an adjacency pantheon of tundra or desert... and that way you can chop for production early game.
I've read several people having success with a technique called 'locust' - which just means clearing out all trees for 1-2 buildings (maybe HolySite, Campus) + settler, and moving along.
You probably know - but chopping forest has most production IF you are farther along in your Tech/Civic tree.
So - another reason how early-culture can help.
For key wonders, for me, best-case is to chop the trees only after I have the 15% policy card for Wonders AND the 10% gov't for Wonders.
And by that point, your 'chops' get you more production on those wonders.
So... this all goes together in getting things like Oracle, Pyramids, Great Library.


One thing I learned from Oberin... that CAN work great... is to use Moksha - to immediately FAITH-BUY districts.
Have you ever tried that technique? Dedicating your first 4 governor titles to Moksha? (I hadn't).
It's an AMAZING technique... because you can settle new lands, move Moksha, five-turns later, you FAITH-BUY your HolySite (w/adjacenty) to give you production, then GOLD-BUY Shrine/Temple for more production.
I use it 'exclusively' if I have a ton of faith through adjacency-HolySite pantheon. It takes a while to get used to... but it can be VERY effective.

I used that for Brazil... because you are NOT chopping... but to get the districts up and running fast... how do you do it?
Moksha-buy them!

I would imagine that it would work great for Science game too...
The serious downside... is that every time you move a Governor... you have a 5-turn wait... so for 10+ cities, I'm usually either Moksha-buying the HS.... if production stinks... or if there are trees-to-chop - I'll use Magnus.

Do you have a standard 'governor' system that you run in your games?

 

[Benfica9s7]

For me its not that the domination isn't fun, because it is, my first wins and first playstyle was all about domination. It's just that as I became better it got to be boring because it was too easy, and I wanted to set the biggest challenge for myself.

I usually go magnus provisions for free settlers -> pingala culture promition for my first 4. I learned it from CPL multiplayer videos, even though i dont play multiplayer much myself, it seemed optimal.

But this moksha strategy might just be genius, i have to try it. I don't think its viable in multiplayer and maybe thats why i never saw it.

What i usually do to get the campuses is chop normal woods, as the rainforest is usually only so big such that after a few cities there are none left and the rest have normal woods. In those rainforest cities i just use the holy site prod + trade routes to jumpstart those cities and hard build districts.

 

[Pengwin7]

The Moksha strategy is pretty amazing... it's a bit tough to wait for him to get to that "Divine Architect" (faith-buy district).
Usually you have to get StateWorkforce/EarlyEmpire (1,2) build gov.plaza (3) + (your choice specialty district for #4)... and that'll get you the 4 gov-titles to get there.
So after Holy Site, I'm usually building that GovPlaza in City1 or 2... not sure if that's part of your typical play... but it is now part-of-mine when I have "Moksha-Adjacency/Pantheon" games.

But/And... again... getting to these marks fastest requires Culture.
Absolutely nothing beats early-game-culture for tempo/snowball.

Even with chops... the more techs/civics you complete... the more you get per 'chop'.

So the other spot where the Moksha strategy works well is that it saves you from chopping stuff that has more production LATER.

You'd start your games as usual... but pushing to get Moksha with 4 gov titles, then move him into new city that'll *could* have great HolySite - and once Moksha is established (5-turn wait):
1) Faith buy HS (w/Work Ethic = big prod), gold-buy Shrine/Temple/+ (if you can)
2) Push however you can to get to pop4 in that new city so you can keep Moksha there and buy District2. (MovingMoksha is the biggest downside of this strategy... but it's same downside as MovingMagnus for chop-value)
3) Faith buy District-of-Choice (for Science games... I'm not sure if this would be Campus or CommHub... culture people do CommHub at pop4 and Theatre Square at pop7)
4) If... you have saved your chops... you might be able to move Moksha OUT after-faith-buying district(s)... and then move Magnus IN (as GovTitle5)... then he can chop out the Library/University... if you need those and no-gold-to-buy
REPEAT in EACH NEW CITY.


But again... for your snowball... MASSIVE early culture - is the luck-based thing that you probably haven't had yet.

Science is not an expertise of mine... so it's also possible this strategy doesn't work.
Oberin would know. He'll pop his head in here at some point... very, very wise.

I think if you had a capital with Paititi two tiles away... close enough to 'reach' a 4-culture Paititi tile... and then a 2nd 4-culture Paititi tile... especially if those tiles had something worthwhile on them (which they can/could)...
I think... that'd set up your best game ever - assuming all other things fall in line with how they normally go.
[Once you hit Pol.Phil. and/or Feudalism, you can choose to 'not work' those culture tiles... if you have better tiles than 'culture-heavy' tiles you want to work.]

(I'm not a fan of cheesing a set-up to grant you Paititi... I simply "root for it"... but I do believe it can be 'strongest possible' start spawn in Civ6. The culture/gold combo is just unmatched by anything else... Ancient Era)

Païtiti (Civ6)

Back to List of natural wonders in Civ6 Hidden in the glorious wildness like unmined gold.John Muir Païtiti is a three-tile impassable natural wonder in Civilization VI that was added in the Maya & Gran Colombia Pack. Each wonder tile provides +2 Culture, +3 Gold, and +2 Appeal to adjacent...

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