Anybody actually use district discount mechanism early game

[adajaga]

e.g. building two districts of one type before while you've only unlocked two, so the other is cheaper. (2 holy sites for cheap harbors or 2 campuses for cheap commercial hubs)

It is an fun challenge but the opportunity cost is obviously very high. Anybody had a good experience?

 

[Victoria]

It is an fun challenge but the opportunity cost is obviously very high. Anybody had a good experience?

Sure. Building 3 campus and then concentrating on harbours and up to cartography before getting bronze working
Can be dodgy but its probably one of the better paths.
As well as the opportunity cost is does require each campus to be finished which is not normally something I would do.
I tend not to bother as it breaks my immersion. The laster discounts come naturally and you can make use of them to get the many district inspiration cheaper.

 

[sethryclaus]

I build 2 campuses if there are 2 good spots (4+) and it makes sense based on my Civ. Likewise, I'm a fan of harbours for the trade routes and shipyards later on - again, if it makes sense and I don't need to fight. It's super greedy though (as V said)

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Your post made me aware of the mechanics. I didn't know it existed before.
I just used it for the first time and holy horsehocky it is powerful.

However, i imagine it must fit your playstyle. In my "old" playstyle, where i would spend the first 100 turns conquering it would never have fitted.
Now i play pacifist 7CC while trying to go for every non-aggressive victory condition in a single game, which results in quickly settling 7 cities and then developing them with different districts and it works wonders. Its kind of a snowball thing. You want to keep your # of finished districts ahead of the researched district techs. Since the districts come at a discount, this is far easier than i ever imagined it would be. I didnt try to get a discount on the very early district (those were cheap because i planted them with only like 3-5 techs researched), started getting discounts at my 5th district, made sure every district was at discount from there on. Feel like i can optimize this even more on my next game.

The silly thing is, i am actively keeping my early science low. Not only to avoid the district techs, but escalating district cost by civic/techs mechanic. This really is weird and feels like flawed game design.
As for opportunity cost: yes keeping research low and avoiding many tech paths seems like a high cost, but i don't think it is that high a cost as once you get your tech going, you catch up fast and the early delay is only a few turns of research later on.

 

[Victoria]

This really is weird and feels like flawed game design.

Keeping techs down does not help unless keeping civics down.
In the early game civics are king as you want to get to Feudalism for the builders.delay that and you probably suffer more because you are already often manipulating your researching to avoid more districts and you are building more districts early which slows yoru expansion and ups your maintenance
Not sure its badly flawed if it is. I do feel unnatural doing it unless rushing Navy in a safe place.
.. and WB, have not seen you arround for a while

 

[WackenOpenAir]

yes, i try to keep the tech/civics at a 1/1.33 ratio. I didn't focus on feudalism too hard. I did what i could to get to political theory fast though.
In the past feudalism would be my key tech where the whole game changes, and i would usually built only like 2 workers before feudalism. But now with the improved lumber mills and the governors, construction is my new key tech. Cant get feudalism nearly as fast as construction anyways, so now i just go for construction asap and do a lot of work with 4 action workers. Feudalism is of course still a strong thing, but since i build a lot of workers before it anyways, there is much less pressure to get there and i feel ok going for theology and recorded history first . (I think this is a great improvement in game design, much more balanced like this)
I don't find maintenance to be an issue because even while i do want to get the diplomacy victory, i don't mind selling it early game when some AI's are paying 1gpt or more for 1 favor. (and i now focus much more on getting as many suz as i can early on). This feels like another flawed design to me, to make sure i won't be behind too much on favor later on, i am buying it from civs that value it low (something like 8-10g) while selling it to civs that value it highly. (~1gpt) Ending up with lots of gold and still have more favor than any other civ in game. This whole favor thing is part of why i choose to go for every VC in a single game, if you don't limit yourself in the selling of favor at all and focus only on one non-diplomacy VC, it is too much like a cheat and gold is like water.

 

[RealHuhn]

Yes, I make use of it all the time. It's also why I prefer Audience Chamber over Ancestral Hall with many civs. More housing/population is very beneficial for spamming districts and Monumentality/Liang combination is usually good enough anyway.

There are countless strategies you can try with this mechanic and I've probably tried them all at this point. A religious start with 2x Holy sites is probably the most natural start to kick things off but each civ can benefit from the mechanic in a different way. Basically you want to pick one type of district which you then spam in as many cities as possible. The choice heavily depends on the civ you pick. You can get pretty creative, for example on isolated starts a commercial hub rush can work as well. Chop markets with Magnus, get the early Great Merchants for even more trade routes and it feels like you play a different game.
High science output is not a big problem because you can "store" your excess science in several costly techs by researching 50% of them and then switch. Culture on the other hand is where this strategy can break. You need to get it just right or the discovery of the entertainment complex ruins the optimal progression.
Since 1-2 types of districts won't be discounted for the majority of the game, it also helps to use governor promotions like Liangs +20% production boost or Moksha and Reyna's abilities to buy districts with faith/gold. I feel like Moksha's promotion is a lot better though.

The mechanic does reduce immersion but it adds a lot of tactical depth and replayability to the game in my opinion. I like the design.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

With the 1/1.33 ratio for civics/techs, i usually end up having to limit technology rather than culture. It just seems to come in faster when i play naturally. Might have something to do with how i look at things. Science has always been my focus in civ over the last 2 decades. I did say i actively limited science, but since i had 2 spots with 6 adjacency, and my head keeps telling me that campus is by far the most important district, i did start with 3 campusses. After that i had to try and curb my research a bit I suppose if i had started with holy sites, i would not have had that issue and maybe culture would be the deciding factor in the district costs (but i am playing arabia, so that makes the campus >> the holy site some extra)

 

[Victoria]

Science has always been my focus in civ over the last 2 decades

Well... to me I like the early envoy because I go for quests and early diplomatic favour from Suze is great, let alone getting early dip on a stringer CS like Kumasi or Kabul.
The discount cards, the extra slots, the government bonuses. and as long as you do not wander into too many cheap civics the benefits outweigh... unless wanting to beeline Toas's or something. A lot does depend on early CS meets as well.

 

[pkaem]

What I do often now is to build an early settler and pick another with relgious settlements. It's quite important to have a harvestable food source on the 3rd city if you have high early culture. I build a holy site in each city maybe chopping the last one. After this I build the government plaza with discount. From here you can unlock the next district and get two of then with discount, campuses most of the time. When you hit a classic ga you have a solid position, chop ancesteral hall, go for settlers or go to war with the throne. With three hs and shrines ready you can found a religion and get reliquaries, chop temples and mont St. Michaels and go for a cv or do whatever you like.

 

[The googles do nothing]

It depends on the difficulty. On higher difficulties (or MP) I need to build more unit and I'm not good enough to juggle that many priorities. Lower difficulties i'll try to use it by building a HS or an Encampment cheaply and get the discount.

 

[RealHuhn]

What I do often now is to build an early settler and pick another with relgious settlements. It's quite important to have a harvestable food source on the 3rd city if you have high early culture. I build a holy site in each city maybe chopping the last one. After this I build the government plaza with discount. From here you can unlock the next district and get two of then with discount, campuses most of the time. When you hit a classic ga you have a solid position, chop ancesteral hall, go for settlers or go to war with the throne. With three hs and shrines ready you can found a religion and get reliquaries, chop temples and mont St. Michaels and go for a cv or do whatever you like.

Yes, this is a very good religious start. Audience Chamber works as well for a more tall approach. Just rushbuy builders with faith.

Speaking of pantheons, another good choice is the +25% production bonus to the first district in each city. In the long run it definitely saves more hammers than religious settlements and combined with Liang's 2nd promotion, the first district is pretty much discounted as well. So what you can do is rush Early Empire, slot the 50% settler card, spam settlers and lock down the costs of one type of district in each city, the campus for example. Rotate Liang from city to city to help with the production and rushbuy builders with 4 charges and prioritize monuments first. After that you'll have let's say 7 cities with 7 campuses and a government plaza which unlocks the discount for 6 additional types of districts. This way, you can also rush to IZs without messing up the discounts. I've tried this in my recent Scotland game and it worked quite well.

 

[The_Rim_Greaper]

e.g. building two districts of one type before while you've only unlocked two, so the other is cheaper. (2 holy sites for cheap harbors or 2 campuses for cheap commercial hubs)

It is an fun challenge but the opportunity cost is obviously very high. Anybody had a good experience?

Im not a good player, but still, id like to know and experiment this so called mechanic...but i cant seem to find it explained anywhere? can anyone explain it to me (dummies edition) or point me out on the right place to look for it?
thank you

 

[Victoria]

but i cant seem to find it explained anywhere?

Enjoy... it’s not the dummies version though...
District Discount Mechanism

 

[RealHuhn]

Im not a good player, but still, id like to know and experiment this so called mechanic...but i cant seem to find it explained anywhere? can anyone explain it to me (dummies edition) or point me out on the right place to look for it?
thank you

There's no dummies version but the 1st and 2nd discount per district are quite easy to remember by two simple rules.

1st discount per district:
Step 1: Count the number of districts you've already built in your empire (always ignore Aqueducts, Dams and Canals). For example 2x campuses + 1x government plaza = 3x districts in your empire
Step 2: Count the types of districts you've unlocked via techs/civics (always ignore Aqueducts, Dams and Canals). For example Writing (unlocks campus) + State Workforce (unlocks government plaza) + Currency (unlocks commercial hub) = 3x unlocked types of districts.
Step 3: Compare the two numbers. In this example 3=3. If these numbers are equal, the first district of each type is discounted. In our example we've already built 2x campuses and 1x government plaza. But 0x commercial hubs. So the 1st commercial hub is discounted (-40% production cost).

2nd discount per district:
Repeat Step 1 and 2. Compare the numbers. Let's say we have 4 districts in our empire now and still only 3 unlocked types of districts. It's 4 > 3.
Whenever it looks like this (first number is one higher than the second one), the first and the second district of each type is discounted.

For the 3rd discount, it gets a bit (not much) more complicated and you need the formula from the linked thread. Also remember that if you counted correctly and do not get the expected discount yet, you have to research a random tech or civic in order to "update" the discounts. Hope this helps.

 

[pkaem]

I think it's not worth to go beyond 6 districts when doing this. You need to divide the number of build districts in your empire by the number of unlocked districts. If the result is bigger than the number of districts built, you want discount on, you'll get it. So bascially you build one district (most often holy site or campus) finish it and do not lay down another on, or finish two. Then you unlock the plaza and get it discounted, finish it. Build a 3rd of your first district type, finish it and after this unlock the 3rd. Now you'll get two discounts and a total of 6 districts. From here you have problems with holding back to unlock new districts and finishing too many has too high opportunity cost. Also I think this is only viable on peaceful attempts with room to settle. Otherwise you need the production invested into units.

My favourite as said is, three holy sites and palza into two discounted campuses, ancesteral hall, golden age, settler spam with faith and magnus. Very strong. From here you can go science, culture or religion. It more or less requires religious settlements for the 3rd settler, some suboptimal early chops. Remember you have to have all three cities at at least 4 pop to be able to build two districts. It may require one or two chops in your 3rd expansion.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I think it's not worth to go beyond 6 districts when doing this.

If i'm right, the b/a part of the formula uses fractions. So i think beyond 6 is actually where it starts to get easy. All you need to do is keep your district count 2 or more ahead of your research count and b/a will be >1 (even after placing an empty one) and you will get a second district at discount.

This is exactly what i did in my last game. I found out about this thread after i had started out with 2-3 campusses, 2-3 holy sites and a gov plaza already. From there on, i got 2 discounted districts of each type. (none of those districts were in my capital btw, my capital bo was: monument, slinger and then 6 settlers uninterupted. I think that works well because settling fast has always been best anyway, and it also gives you more places to build districts)

Getting the 3th of each for free is more difficult as that would require you to have double the research count +2 in finished districts. Might be more feasible if you go without religion and never research it.

 

[RealHuhn]

If i'm right, the b/a part of the formula uses fractions. So i think beyond 6 is actually where it starts to get easy. All you need to do is keep your district count 2 or more ahead of your research count and b/a will be >1 (even after placing an empty one) and you will get a second district at discount.

For the 2nd discount it's 1 or more ahead, so even easier.

Getting the 3th of each for free is more difficult as that would require you to have double the research count +2 in finished districts. Might be more feasible if you go without religion and never research it.

You can get the 3rd discount very easily if you spam one type of district everywhere, for example the campus. Just do not lock down the costs of other districts before you finish those campuses (and the first round of discounted districts). The 3rd discount saves more hammers than the pre-place and lock costs method. The cost efficiency of the 4th discount depends on the civ/map/war/peace etc.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Oh i thought i needed +2 because the second part of the formula also takes unfinished districts into account. But that is i suppose only for the b/a > n part. Where b/a is still about finished districts only. (hmm, even then.. i guess i dont exactly know what i was thinking) So yes, even easier

 

[pkaem]

How is this easier? You unlock too many districts in that phase. Otherwise you hold back on important tech and you don't want to build every district early.