Anyone else worried about the map expansion feature?

[sTAPler27]

I get that it's a game but putting a physical barrier down that says you can't explore even if you should realistically be able to is just odd. I hope at the very least the other continent is inhabited with other civs. I feel like the whole "new world" idea in which there's this completely empty continent for the taking a bit odd as a built in mechanic. If a continent just so happened to be more empty in one game that's one thing because the game is about alternate history and the variables are randomized to make things interesting but for it to be a given that there's just always going to be a continent rush like the Europeans did in our world is just a bit worrying and pushes more of a world view if anything. Even if Civs like the Shawnee or Maya will get to participate in that rush it doesn't make it much better.

 

[Olleus]

AFAIK, we've been told that the other continent is being simulated during the ancient age so it doesn't appear completely ex nihilo in our game at the exploration age. Most obvious implementation of that is that it exists and is being played by the AI as per normal, just that it's inaccessible due to ocean tiles or the like during the ancient age. The map actually cutting off is also a possibility, but a less likely one IMO.

It's how this would work between the exploration and modern era that's baffling to me.

 

[sTAPler27]

AFAIK, we've been told that the other continent is being simulated during the ancient age so it doesn't appear completely ex nihilo in our game at the exploration age. Most obvious implementation of that is that it exists and is being played by the AI as per normal, just that it's inaccessible due to ocean tiles or the like during the ancient age. The map actually cutting off is also a possibility, but a less likely one IMO.

It's how this would work between the exploration and modern era that's baffling to me.

I mean the map expansion would have to be only the one time right? Unless they plan on taking the modern era to space which would be a whole different game at that point not saying I wouldn't enjoy that though. It does feel a bit bad that they're handicapping expansion though. I get that the Maori are kind of busted but it seems unfair to limit expansion to the exploration age just because that's around the time the European powers got around to it.

 

[RedCourtJester]

I have two minor gripes/concerns.

1. Shouldn't the map be opening up, or also opening up, in the transition from antiquity to exploration? If anything, that to me is more defining of "exploration" than practically anything else in the game, particularly with how Andrew Johnson defined the eras in the other thread. I just don't understand why other continents are hidden in the exploration era, makes no sense thematically.

2. Having available space for cities (and the general city cap) limited for 2 of 3 eras also makes me wonder exactly how deep the gameplay will end up being. Again, I totally understand why limitations might be placed in the antiquity era; why do they persist when the game "opens up" to the second act? Shouldn't there be some other way to differentiate the modern era from the exploration era beyond "oh by the way here are more civs/continents." That, again, should be exploration era's gimmick; modern era should be about...something else.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I mean the map expansion would have to be only the one time right? Unless they plan on taking the modern era to space which would be a whole different game at that point not saying I wouldn't enjoy that though. It does feel a bit bad that they're handicapping expansion though. I get that the Maori are kind of busted but it seems unfair to limit expansion to the exploration age just because that's around the time the European powers got around to it.

Worth saying that the Exploration Age is not the European Age of Discovery, although I think we all assumed it was when first announced. It is much broader and looser in terms of the time period covered, they're thinking of Ages thematically rather than in a strict global timeline. In theory this Age will cover a lot of Polynesian exploration, Norse exploration, the Crusades, as well as the the Age of Discovery.

In terms of the map expanding, I'm a little worried about what this means for map types. I don't mind losing Pangea and TSL, I just hope we still get a good variety. I don't mind so much that ocean exploration will not be possible in Antiquity - it's just that the tech for crossing the oceans will not be available until Exploration, which is not a huge departure from previous Civ games, in reality.

 

[sTAPler27]

Worth saying that the Exploration Age is not the European Age of Discovery, although I think we all assumed it was when first announced. It is much broader and looser in terms of the time period covered, they're thinking of Ages thematically rather than in a strict global timeline. In theory this Age will cover a lot of Polynesian exploration, Norse exploration, the Crusades, as well as the the Age of Discovery.

In terms of the map expanding, I'm a little worried about what this means for map types. I don't mind losing Pangea and TSL, I just hope we still get a good variety. I don't mind so much that ocean exploration will not be possible in Antiquity - it's just that the tech for crossing the oceans will not be available until Exploration, which is not a huge departure from previous Civ games, in reality.

They don't say it's the European age of discovery but with the whole "completely new continent forms" feature it feels like they're heavily implying it. I mean in the Eastern Hemisphere for example I'm fairly certain most of the cultures were at least partially aware of the other two continents connected to them.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

They don't say it's the European age of discovery but with the whole "completely new continent forms" feature it feels like they're heavily implying it.

Hm, not sure I agree, just based on the civs we know are in this Age. There is Spain, but otherwise we have Norman, Chola, Mongolia, Shawnee, Ming. Doesn't feel very Age of Discovery to me, bearing in mind that the map expansion is only one of the new mechanics that gets introduced in this Age.

 

[AriochIV]

I'm not thrilled with the forced limitation of Terra style maps, but I'm curious to see what they do to justify this change. I'm also a little worried about the historical narrative being forced, but we'll see.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think we know what exploration age opens map by just allowing moving through ocean. It's totally ok and in sync with previous games, just tied to ages now.

But we have zero information about what happens between modern and exploration. Probably we'll have some hints soon once exploration gameplay starts unlocking.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Personally I think this is one of the most exciting parts of Civ 7 that they've revealed so far!

I usually play Continents maps but sometimes you get super early meets, I love that this will be physically impossible now.

 

[Gedemon]

AFAIK, we've been told that the other continent is being simulated during the ancient age so it doesn't appear completely ex nihilo in our game at the exploration age. Most obvious implementation of that is that it exists and is being played by the AI as per normal, just that it's inaccessible due to ocean tiles or the like during the ancient age. The map actually cutting off is also a possibility, but a less likely one IMO.

It's how this would work between the exploration and modern era that's baffling to me.

I was surprised when they announced the other civs were playing on the other continent in the Antiquity age, seems a waste of CPU time when they have an advanced start code and no contact guaranteed. Maybe it wasn't worth the dev time to simulate an Era of diplomacy ?

Maybe there will be an option for single era games in Antiquity, as I understand it, it would allow more players on some platforms...

 

[stealth_nsk]

I was surprised when they announced the other civs were playing on the other continent in the Antiquity age, seems a waste of CPU time when they have an advanced start code and no contact guaranteed. Maybe it wasn't worth the dev time to simulate an Era of diplomacy ?

Maybe there will be an option for single era games in Antiquity, as I understand it, it would allow more players on some platforms...

1. Other civs playing on other continent compete for wonders, so it's some kind of contact
2. Once you actually have contact, you need to face civilizations, which look naturally developed. The easiest way to create civilizations which look naturally developed is to make them develop naturally
3. For antiquity-only game I assume "no new world" will be an option, probably default. And if developers invest some time, they could allow more players in some games. Just not sure if that's a priority

 

[chaosprophet]

They don't say it's the European age of discovery but with the whole "completely new continent forms" feature it feels like they're heavily implying it. I mean in the Eastern Hemisphere for example I'm fairly certain most of the cultures were at least partially aware of the other two continents connected to them.

I guess the clear difference, with civs also existing on the other half of the map, is that instead of one sided conquer from you, the civs on the other side would also be able to come to your side at the same time, maybe earlier than you if a civ there gets to navigation (or whatever the tech will be called) before you.

A difference from previous games that I can expect, if it is true the other half of the map has less civs than your half, instead of the usual civ game where generally civs would be spread all over the map equally, is that that half would then naturally be more sparse, so more stuff for the player to explore. Considering some of the things they said, it wouldn't surprise me that they would even add new city states and discoveries on that side of the map when the era starts (instead of just having the ones spawn in the start of the game that civs on that side may have already interacted with), as one of the reasons of the divided map seems to be to keep the exploration and expansion part of the game that players tend to like the most to be a thing for longer.

 

[Olleus]

I was surprised when they announced the other civs were playing on the other continent in the Antiquity age, seems a waste of CPU time when they have an advanced start code and no contact guaranteed. Maybe it wasn't worth the dev time to simulate an Era of diplomacy ?

Maybe there will be an option for single era games in Antiquity, as I understand it, it would allow more players on some platforms...

If the other continent "plays" while the human is playing (rather than between human turns as normal), the performance hit can be hidden. Considering there'll be no interactions (beyond maybe races for wonders), things getting played half a turn out if sync shouldn't matter at all.

 

[TreVor_ish]

This is one of the features made specifically to extend engagement in gameplay. Map being expanded after age transition gives additional space to explore into.
I am not particularly fond of an artificial walls like that. Map big enough would always have a space to explore. Also, why not be able to send a ship, any ship, further into ocean, for a chance of finding a new land, but with a possibility to have it lost.

This also begs the question, will we only have Terra maps from now on?

It also depends on how long Fxs is planning to support CIVII. With deblobbed civs and decoupled leaders, their numbers can go really high over the years.
Wonder what would be possible maximum number of players and how big of map one can start a game with. Numbers in multiplayer unfortunately does not give me much of a confidence, but it also can mean nothing.
Before we see full gameplay between all three Ages, it's really hard to tell how map expansion would improve it.

 

[AriochIV]

The thing is, having new places to explore once you research deep water access is not a new feature; it has always been in the game with continents and Terra maps. So unless there's some new special feature going on with the New World that they haven't told us about yet, this seems like only a limitation and not an addition.

 

[Krikkit1]

The thing is, having new places to explore once you research deep water access is not a new feature; it has always been in the game with continents and Terra maps. So unless there's some new special feature going on with the New World that they haven't told us about yet, this seems like only a limitation and not an addition.

It seems there is more than just “land separated by ocean”. there have been some era2?3 references to “Distant Lands” as a gameplay term. So your cities over the ocean might be mechanically different from ones you have in Antiquity or found close by.

 

[AlexByrde]

With the transition from Antiquity to Exploration leading from a primarily local land-based warfare and exploration leading to an era with the naval game becoming available, I have to guess that the transition from Exploration to Modern makes air and space available. If the actual map size doesn't change between eras and just unlocks new ways to interact, then perhaps there is a hex grid (or grids) for aerospace units. It's rather hard to speculate with the dearth of info about even the Exploration age, though.

 

[ggalindo001]

I think we will have more than just Terra maps. I think even a single continent, Pangaea map -- there will be natural barriers that cannot be crossed until the exploration age (mountain ranges are what comes to mind) -- and possibly one or two "deep sea" hexes on multiple sides of the continent that would prevent someone from going through.

I do think there likely needs to be a map that allows for maximum "competitive" participation (whether it is the legacy duel map or something) -- that does not have artificial restrictions on being able to fully explore in Age 1.

What I am seriously excited about are maps where certain strategic resources are on one side but not the other -- horses on one side, etc. Forcing a level of trade and exploration in that middle age. I think that is the intent -- will be interesting to see if they can manage this in execution.

 

[sTAPler27]

I think we know what exploration age opens map by just allowing moving through ocean. It's totally ok and in sync with previous games, just tied to ages now.

But we have zero information about what happens between modern and exploration. Probably we'll have some hints soon once exploration gameplay starts unlocking.

I get that but having it so all civs learn to cross oceans around the same time feels a bit forced. Not all cultures developed how to cross oceans around the same time