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Anyone Happy?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Minou, Oct 7, 2020.

  1. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Has anyone been able to get their cities to Happy since the update? Pre-patch I would usually have all cities Happy and maybe even some Ecstatic late game. It is still very easy for small empires, but I put in a big effort in my latest Science game and just couldn't move the needle and every single city was between -1 and +1 almost the entire game.

    For happiness I:
    1. Captured or traded for all 18 luxuries that were in the game.
    2. Had almost every city in range of a Zoo (easier since Mexico City was in the game). I almost never build Zoos but really wanted to go for Happy this game.
    3. Found a great Colosseum site that hit 8 cities.
    4. Eliminated all unhappiness penalties (war weariness, etc).
    5. Built about two dozen waterside City Parks with Liang (playing as Teddy so I wanted the Appeal anyway).
    6. Ran Liberalism. I had planned to also run Republican Legacy but needed Oligarchy more so ended up without that legacy policy.

    Near the final turn of the game I counted up 246 citizens spread across 36 cities. Maybe I should have burned more cities, but almost every one I kept served a purpose, either it had some good districts already in place, had 4+ forests to chop, or was keeping other cities from flipping by loyalty. I was a also a little sloppy slowing growth. Around T100 I started putting citizens in district buildings to cap cities that were not aiming for 10 pop for Rationalism, but kind of slacked off on it in the late game and especially let cities captured late where the AI spread Feed the World grow to much.

    To be clear, it would have been possible to get happier by doing certain things, but these would slow down the spaceship. For example, I could have:
    1. Gone hog wild with National Parks but that faith was better used for Builders and Jesuit Campus buildings.
    2. Could built Stadiums and the Estádio do Maracanã, but by the time there unlocked the spaceship was already heading to Mars so it would only be helping for a few turns.
    3. Ran New Deal, but Suffrage was off the beeline to Globalism and I prefer Communism for Science Victory.
    4. Built Stupa, but since only about 1/3rd of cities had Holy Sites it would not have made much difference, plus I was using faith for Builders and Jesuit Education so I never bothered with a Worship Building belief.
    5. Taken River Goddess of Zen Meditation, but I Religious Settlerments / Earth Goddess and Choral Music / Jesuit Education are much stronger.

    So, is Happy just not worth ever going for anymore? In retrospect, the hammers invested in those Entertainment Complexes and Zoos would probably have been better for projects. The only way I could really see getting my cities happy without slowing the overall space race down seems to be Cahokia, who were not in the game. Maybe also a very odd thing like winning to the vote to double effectiveness of a luxury that I had 5 copies of, but that never came up.
     
  2. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    Sounds fine for such a wide empire (36 cities).
     
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  3. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    Before, I used to get my cities to Happy or even Ecstatic early game just by trading luxuries, I mostly ignored ECs (including early Colloseum) until quite late into the game. Now, doing the same, my cities are most often Content, sometimes they slip into Displeased mid-game, and I seldom see other statuses. Going out of my way to build ECs all over the place later just keeps most of the cities in the Content zone anyway, and if I achieve happier moods, that is already on the home straight, when it does not matter anymore.

    It seems it is quite enough to keep just above the Content line with -1 amenity per city, as the next step to Happy is very high now and hardly worth it. That production seems better be used for whatever victory condition you're going.
     
  4. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Yeah, I think the update has made happiness much less meaningful which is a shame. Before you were rewarded for careful planning with Happy / Ecstatic cities and now it seems like you can either do nothing or work your butt off for happiness and either way you are.... Content.

    I think it would be great if they started you at 0 again (starting at -1 is just weird) and penalized/rewarded every point above/below with a small bonus/malus, say +2% fo +1 happiness +4% for +2 happiness, etc. and the same in reverse for each point of negative happiness. Then, all those Water Parks and Ski Slopes an whatnot that never get built might be worthwhile.
     
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  5. Cpt Chaos

    Cpt Chaos Chieftain

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    One thing you haven't mentioned is ski resorts, which give +1 amenity. I always place as many of them as I can in the late game to try and get amenities in my main cities as high as possible.
     
  6. Mahi

    Mahi Prince

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    As my latest game with Montezuma I had zero trouble keeping my cities happy but he is kinda biased towards happiness.
     
  7. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Good point about Ski Resorts. I spammed a bunch near the end and it actually got one city up to +3 happiness. The problem is that my science was way ahead of culture, so Professional Sports was not complete until I was deep into the last part of the tech tree so the bonus was essentially meaningless (only in play for <10 turns and I was already at 1 tech per turn, and well past the point when growth bonus mattered). Of course, many cities won't have any mountains nearby. I also made two National Parks, again so late though it barely mattered since I went for Globalization before circling back to Conservation. Could have planned more of these but I think it was much better to beeline Globalization and buy more Research Labs than to have invested in early parks.

    I am wondering if New Deal + Retainers might have been worth while? At least half my cities had 3 districts, so New Deal plus stationing my (by then) resting troops) would have probably put all or most at +3 at least.

    My feeling is that in addition to making bonus/malus a small step up for each happiness instead of the big dead zone of -2 to +2, a few more happiness boosts would be nice. Maybe one of the upcoming new wonders will provide +1 Happiness empire wide. That would be interesting. I'd personally love to see a policy that gives +1 Amenities for each Amphitheater and Museum. And a City Center improvement (Town Square?) that gives +1 amenity and unlocks around mid-game.
     
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  8. chazzycat

    chazzycat Deity

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    stadiums & aquatics centers (overlapping of course) tend to be the point in time where all my happiness issues go away forever.
     
  9. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Oh, I forgot to add. A small thing but just for OCD purposes wouldn't it be nice if Entertainment Complex got an adjacency bonus? I guess keep +1 amenity base and add another +1 amenity for each 2 adjacent districts. It wouldn't really make a huge difference but man it bugs me so much that there it gets no adjacency!
     
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  10. 8housesofelixir

    8housesofelixir King

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    To simply put, the Amenity changes in the August Patch largely rendered the Happy/Ecstatic status meaningless, esp. in early to mid-game.

    Massive investment and inadequate return.
     
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  11. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

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    They could use normal or even major adjacency from TDs and CHs. Movies and shopping goes hand in hand with some entertainment in EDs, EDs also serve as nice compensation for kids for being dragged along around boring museums, theatres and clothing stores for better part of the day ;)
     
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  12. Leucarum

    Leucarum King

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    Regardless, the amenity change must have Robert the Bruce crying into his haggis.
     
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  13. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    It was a key part of the loyaly mechanic and it did allow some good value from luxuries, it allowed a different option to how you played your game which is largely gone.
    Somehow it just feels like another flat mechanic that can be avoided apart from localised amenities in cities recently conquered.
    Remind me why they did the change?
     
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  14. Breadsmith

    Breadsmith Warlord

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    I uses to be happy, but then Dave moved in next door. I guess if I had some bees it would help though.

    I think I've had a few cities be happy since the patch, but never ecstatic. And I tend to go overboard o. Ec once I get tired of the low amenities warning.
     
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  15. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    Not sure if Devs gave a reason for the change, I tend not to watch those videos and just wait for the patch notes so maybe I missed it. Overall though I think it is a bad move since it essentially makes amenities irrelevant in most games and it was previously kind of fun to collect them. I remember being stoked to settle a nice spot, get like Cocoa and Silk, and enjoy the bonus. Now it’s pretty meaningless.
     
  16. japanesesamurai

    japanesesamurai Prince

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    It is probably because they are trying to encourage tall play a bit. As also Gauls are more of a turtle civ. And Maya gets bonuses for tall play.
    So with the change to amenities, wide players get a little bit more penalties early in the game and civs like Maya and Gauls a little bit of a bonus throughout the entire game.
     
  17. criZp

    criZp Emperor

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    Seems they have just devalued the amenities . Luckily it's easy to change back.
     
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  18. Minou

    Minou Prince

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    I guess it slightly encourages Tall. It actually hurts Tall too since Ecstatic is harder to reach hut hurts less compared to how it impacts Wide. But Wide will always dominate unless they introduce some penalty like the maintenance in Civ 4. I gave up on Tall years ago other than enjoying the occasional OCC for fun. It would be interesting if they added some policies or whatnot to make it viable.

    It would have to be really powerful to even make it an option for optimal play. Double yields from district type X policy if you own less than 10 cities? A powerful building or government that was only allowed if you have 10 or less cities?

    Even then you probably will be better off expanding since choppable trees just get more and more powerful as the game goes on.
     
  19. pokiehl

    pokiehl Emperor

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    I'm surprised to hear people complaining about the change and wanting more and more rewards and yields.

    It should be difficult to keep 36 cities happy and your reward for doing so should be the maintenance of your insanely large empire rather than more numbers going up and further wrecking the game's pacing.

    Happiness before the update was so simple to manage it became meaningless. Every city was basically guaranteed +10% yields. I'm glad it's harder to get to that state.

    I think the update actually didn't go far enough. It's too easy to avoid the negative happinesses.
     
  20. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    I suppose you are not wrong.
    I don't really focus or notice anyways.
    I still seem to be able to warmonger my way to a victory.
    I believe these changes hurt the AI more than the player as usual.
    I finished a game last night with 40+ cities that were mostly content.
    I noticed I haven't seen any Barbarian Rebels lately since the change.
    My gripe is the endless Game Mode Options now.
    Although I think I enjoy the Tech/Civic Shuffle Mode as it makes some things harder for me.

    I just started a game with no modes enabled as Harald.
    Germany DoWed me and I took his small empire with archers and warriors.
    My Suzed CS razed one of his cities too fast for me to get it.
    It wrecked my early game but now I have plenty of space and 1 less AI.
    The Horse Barbs attacking me from the South didn't make things easier (lol).
    Those guys kept wrecking my Holy Site but I still managed an unnecessary relgion.
    I've been tinkering with Crusade trying to have fun with it and make it work.
    Game Over eventually and I highly doubt happiness will ever be a problem.
    Hunza razed a German City and stole one of their settlers.
    Basically a trade off for me though as Germany might of gotten up walls without their helping me.
    Germany built a bunch of Galleys for some reason?

    Turn 74.jpg
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2020

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