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Anyone Not believe we are causing Global Warming?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Abaddon, Dec 26, 2006.

?

Do Humans cause Global Warming?

  1. Yes - American

    33.2%
  2. No - American

    11.5%
  3. Yes - Non American

    48.4%
  4. No - Non American

    6.9%
  1. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Prove it. Present something that PROVES the world's total forest area is shrinking.

    I'm not going to hold my breath waiting. Here's why:

    CESBIO web site
    This web site says the question is currently unanswerable.


    Which means that we don't know how much biomass is actually located in Batteryacid's beloved rainforests, or in the oceans, or anywhere else. Which refutes (okay, challenges) StarWorms and Batteryacid at the same time. Two endangered birds with one stone. :)

    Rebuttals?

    (Side note: the CESBIO site has a GREAT idea--a global system to measure biomass.)
     
  2. skadistic

    skadistic Caomhanach

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    Save the world from global warming...plant some marijuana.
     
  3. brennan

    brennan Argumentative Brit

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    Your argument about biomass is pure pedantry (as usual) and an appeal to ignorance (as usual). You know that's a logical fallacy, right?
     
  4. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I was thinking that a good idea might be to plant plants that have deep and fibrous root systems. The more biomass (aka CO2) we bury, the less that is in the atmosphere.

    I'm thinking we could supplant our lawns.
     
  5. batteryacid

    batteryacid Prince

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    You said that we don´t need to look at the forests for CO2 budget because the sea is much more important, I presented data which contradicted your argument.
    For an annual CO2 flux budget you need the amount that is fixed by the plants (which is as I wrote before the photosynthesis rate and which is dominated by forests) and the CO2 that is deposited from an habitat into the Litosphere, where it becomes unavailable.

    As repedately was presented here, deforestation is still going on, thus the amount of photosyntesis-fixed CO2 per year goes back and at the same time the CO2 that was stored in the forests is released, which is a fact. Fixed CO2 by wood farms (like its done in most developed countries) is a two edged sword in the CO2 budget, because when the cutting/replanting frequency is too high (which is from an economic point of view tempting for wood producers), more carbon is leeched from the soil during the growth phase than fixed by photosynthesis and redeposited by mature trees.

    Furthermore cause pollution and water temperature changes the dying of coral reefs, which results in less CO2 that is deposited as lime, which is another important deposition mechanism for carbon besides carbon deposition in the soil by plant litter.

    So, now I want to hear now from you what humans are doing to REDUCE the CO2 amount of the atmosphere; looking at all the arrows and reservoirs in the global CO2 flux I can only see an ELEVATION caused by things done from humans. Time to take some responsibility and put the head out of the sand.
     
  6. MamboJoel

    MamboJoel Cool.

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    The main reason for beeing skeptic towards GW is beeing a conservative, the main reason for beeing a GW "enthusiast" is beeing a liberal...
    So the only one I care listening to are the liberal skeptics and the conservative enthusisats. ;)
     
  7. StarWorms

    StarWorms Deity

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    The world's total forest area is irrelevant. Forests are shrinking because of deforestation. There's tons of evidence out there, just take a look at the Amazon rainforest shrinking, due to deforestation. Prove to me that deforestation does not decrease the sizes of forests. Do you not know that the Amazon rainforest is shrinking or do you just see it as an environmental conspiracy to encourage recycling or the like?

    Please show me the proof that current methods are completely and utterly inaccurate before making such a bold statement. We have a good idea of the biomass that exists in the rainforests, and around the world.

    It doesn't refute my points at all. Prove to me that deforestation doesn't cause forests to shrink. Prove to me that around 2/3 of species do not live in the rainforest. Prove to me that deforestation does not cause extinction.
     
  8. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    If a rainforest hectare is replaced by farm, the math is pretty easy. Neither farm nor rainforest have much biomass under the ground, and so we can judge the biomass by looking at the above-ground biomass (which a rainforest clearly has more of).
     
  9. Tank_Guy#3

    Tank_Guy#3 Lion of Lehistan

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    I don't know about today, it's freakin freezing outside. Quite literally, -1 (F) right now.

    Up in Hayward, WI it was 21 below zero (again Farenheit).
     
  10. drkodos

    drkodos Emperor

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    It is not a belief, it is knowledge.

    Sol is more active today than at anytime during the past 5,000 years.
     
  11. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Easily done. I start with the following claim--which is false:
    People such as myself are planting trees--therefore forests are GROWING.​

    I'm sure you'll agree that the above claim is bogus, right? But why is it bogus? I'm guessing you would answer that "forests are shrinking in spite of people planting trees", am I right?

    The following claim is bogus for exactly the same reason:

    Forests are shrinking because of deforestation.​

    Both statements are crap, because they both make the same mistake. Forests could be growing in spite of humans chopping down X number of trees per year. Or, for that matter, forests could be shrinking in spite of environmental activists planting Z number of trees per year.

    Just because the government spends, say, fifty billion dollars a year on jet bombers doesn't mean the budget deficit is fifty billion dollars.


    I don't have to. The CESBIO web site did. The site says very clearly that accurate methods for measuring biomass on a large scale do not exist.

    As a certified scuba diver, I've seen where the majority of species exist. The low-gravity environment underwater allows life to survive in ways you simply would not believe. Sci-fi stories? Music videos?? HA! They don't know the first thing about wierd.

    Prove me wrong. :)

    (Hint: if we can't measure biomass, there's no way to prove where the majority of species live. So, proving that "2/3 of species do not live in the rainforest" is impossible. But then, proving that "2/3 of species DO live in the rainforest" is also impossible)


    Edit: Wikipedia on the Ocean


    Well, this is a whole new can of godamitahell. In one or two previous global warming threads, people were saying that the Sun was in a period of low activity.

    Though I can't say I'm surprised. In still another thread, people couldn't even agree on the exact size of the planet's ice caps, or the mass of ice in the caps, or on whether either or both caps are shrinking are growing.
     

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