Anyone play Perpentach?

[xAlephx]

As anything besides a diversion, I mean? I love the Balseraph recon line, but I don't feel Keelyn's stuff really comes together well (Summoner is great with arcane, but I'm not sure about it without it, and Creative is fine but nothing special). I've tried Perpentach a little bit as a break from Luchuirp, and while I get some basic ideas (build more troops while you have permanent boosts, try to build Command Posts while Organized, etc.) I'm not following how to make his unique skillset really shine. Is he a play it by ear guy, or has anyone figured out how to be really ugly with the Balseraphs/Perpentach?

Also, question - if you're Organized and building a command post, and you lose the trait, can you finish posts you've started?

 

[Bitwise]

I'm curious about this myself. Perpentach seems to be one of the most challenging leaders.

 

[Grey Fox]

I havn't even played Balseraph yet but I must say, Loki is annoying to meet in an MP game. You can't really kill him, unless you corner him, but he is fast, and he can cast Charm, so its really hard to do.

In a MP game where another player had Loki, he dispelled my Drown, so they didn't have water walking anymore. He charmed random units of mine, and explored my territory freely. I didn't like this of course, so I tried to kill him off. But that was easier said than done. I eventually managed to corner him into a coastal corner of my empire, and when he had no where left to run, he died.

 

[3141592]

You have to use Loki early to strike at low culture enemy cities. If you do that you can pick off allot of your neigbors cities without them getting the least bit mad at you.

Gypsy wagons are also great for revanue. The Freak show is great for culture and the extra GPP allows you to use quite a few culture bombs, on already weakened (culturaly) cities. I'd view Balseraph as a builder civ with culture to the forefrount.

 

[Bitwise]

Yeah, I just started a game as Perpentach where Loki conquered the entire Svartalfar nation except the capital (we started right next to each other). I netted 5 cities from them before Varn took out the capital. So far my legions of gypsy wagons have assaulted all my neighbors and are providing a modest amount of income.

The traits are kind of driving me nuts. It seems like every time I get a useful combination it changes 2 turns later.

 

[marioflag]

Balseraphs are one of the civs i play more, because they are so interesting!
I think that they need some love, Loki should be made a bit more powerful, while they should have a powerful version of the gypsy wagon in late game or even a unit which decrease a lot more culture when in enemy city without decreasing gold.
Gypsy wagon in later phases of the game become a bit useless.

 

[Mickon2007]

I guess it's my fault, but I did'nt SEE gypsy wagons doing anything.

Is there any way to get info about their steeling culture or money? Or do you have to do anything more than just let them guard in another nations city?

Beeing unable to see any result of using them i really regretted to have produced them and my fun of playing Balseraph went to near zero

 

[marioflag]

I guess it's my fault, but I did'nt SEE gypsy wagons doing anything.

Is there any way to get info about their steeling culture or money? Or do you have to do anything more than just let them guard in another nations city?

Beeing unable to see any result of using them i really regretted to have produced them and my fun of playing Balseraph went to near zero

Before 0.22 it was bugged, it should be fixed now but i don't have yet tried with Balseraphs after 0.22, so i'm not sure.

 

[Svantotvit]

I am playing as Perpentach a lot and will do so even more now that the gypsy wagon issue is probably taken care of (although I don't know yet, can't send any wagons in my current game as I am swarmed by animals).

Anyway, I am basically playing him the way you do xalephx: I try to take as much advantage from his current set of traits as I can and bite into my keyboard when he changes traits the moment I am about to do something clever with them

All in all I like the Balseraphs a lot and I think one can live with a mad leader, even if it makes thing a bit more...interesting

 

[Blakmane]

the problem with perpentach is that creative is such a good trait for balseraphs... but he isn't assured of getting it

problem with keelyn is that the summoner trait is totally useless. Ashen Veil is a silly religion to choose due to less culture boni and late appearance, and the magic tech line has no other synergies- beakers are better spent heading down the recon line

I usually use the map editor to give my loki lvl 3 chaos. Rage is only a reasonable lvl 3 spell as it is so I don't find it too imba. Just means he can create havok because he is essentially immune to being attacked by the barbs when they spawn.

 

[xAlephx]

Maybe we could prevail on our fearless editors to retcon Keelyn when Beyond the Sword comes out? I'm sure there will be some espionage traits, and creative/espionage seems culturally a far better match for the Balseraphs (I mean, their acrobats and courtesans are both welcomed with open arms).

 

[Grey Fox]

Maybe we could prevail on our fearless editors to retcon Keelyn when Beyond the Sword comes out? I'm sure there will be some espionage traits, and creative/espionage seems culturally a far better match for the Balseraphs (I mean, their acrobats and courtesans are both welcomed with open arms).

I'm thinking the Hidden trait will have a lot of Espionage features. I'm afraid however that the Hidden trait doesn't really suit Balseraph.

 

[xAlephx]

You think it less suitable than Summoner?

 

[Grey Fox]

You think it less suitable than Summoner?

It's fitting cause her mother was a Sheaim spy, she was caught (pregnant), and convinced Perpentach to spare the child. He agreed and plotted to raise the child up to eventually take Tebryn's life. But when she was born, he had forgotten about the matter.
Powerful conjurers were assigned to keep her safe, and her only companions as a child where their summons. She didn't want her best friend, Puppy the Imp to leave as the summons only lasted a year. So she learned to summon herself.

She then used the summons to "convince" Perpentachs ministers that she was to rule for a while.

 

[Bitwise]

I wouldn't call the Summoner trait useless. It's quite powerful, though it has a narrow application.

Oh and in 2.022 the income from gypsy wagons doesn't show up anywhere, but it is added quietly to your treasury after each turn (looks like the money is drained on each rival players turn).

 

[Grey Fox]

I wouldn't call the Summoner trait useless. It's quite powerful, though it has a narrow application.

It is powerful, it's just not AS powerful as it is with the Arcane combo which Tebryn has.

Keelyn doesn't necessarily have to go the Arcane path in the tech tree either, maybe she can rely on Disciple units, and use priests. With OO she can summon Djinn's for example.

 

[katika]

Don't forget that Druids get access to summoning, and if upgraded from harlequins, they can cast mind and chaos spells, too. So Keelyn can take advantage of Summoning while using her UUs. Or you could not focus so much on culture and try to win conquest with summoners, druids, and ritualists. Less synergy with the Balseraphs, but Summoning is powerful enough to compensate.

 

[Grey Fox]

Forgot about the Druids, good call.

 

[Grey Fox]

I just started a game with Perpentach, and did I get uber starting traits or what?



EDIT: And of course they change on turn 13, to Industrious, Creative and Arcane.

 

[xAlephx]

It's fitting cause her mother was a Sheaim spy, she was caught (pregnant), and convinced Perpentach to spare the child.

Oh, I've read her story. I just think that, trait wise, there's nothing saying Summoning is more Balseraphic than Hidden. They aren't hidden Hidden, but they are excellent at misdirection and manipulation (at least, their Acrobats and Courtesans are welcomed with open arms everywhere, and that's a great starting point for espionage).

So what's your build priorities with Keelyn? You'd need KotE relatively early, to compensate for her lack of arcane. Crafting/mining or education depending on your surrounds, festivals, OO, Hunting, Animal Husbandry, KotE?

Recently with Perp, I started out with Organized, Financial, and Philosophic. Shortly after I founded the OO, they switched to Aggressive, Magic Resistant, and Raider. If only the OO had an exceptionally nasty starting melee unit...

Edit: Grrr... Loki is broken still.

Edit II: Where are Djinni coming from with OO?

Edit III: There's no way to play Balseraphs with Druids without a trip to RoK, right?