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AP calling all the shots

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Jimmyballz, Jun 2, 2008.

  1. Jimmyballz

    Jimmyballz Executive

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    I've read some other AP threads, but here is my situation:

    Shaka and I share a continent, and I am ready to destroy him. He has the same religion as the AP, built by another civ (Constantine), on another continent.

    You've heard this question before, but there is any way I can take his 3 cities before the AP votes to stop the war!!:mad:

    What can I do to crush Shaka? He calls war on me sometimes, only for it to be stopped again by the AP. I find this back and forth petty because it's hindering me from either destoying him and focusing on other more important things, or just living with the fool.
    thanks,
    jb
     
  2. Froggie818

    Froggie818 Chieftain

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    Let their religion spread to you so you get a vote. When the AP proposes stopping the war, vote Never! Even if there are enough votes to end the war, the resolution will fail.
     
  3. dankok8

    dankok8 Elected World Leader

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  4. Plinko16

    Plinko16 Warlord

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    I thought 'stop the war against XXX' could only be done when two or more AP members are at war, not being a member means you can't be compelled by its votes.

    Of course, they can vote to embargo against you and to declare war on you, but they can't make you declare war/peace unless you have a city somewhere with the AP religion.

    So, defy the 'stop the war against Shaka' resolution when it comes up and it will fail.

    Or, if his city tiles all border you culturally, you can just make three stacks and declare war, take all 3 cities and then accept the peace/Shaka's destruction as the war will already be over by the time the vote takes effect.

    Or, you could try to divide Shaka diplomatically from the rest of the AP so they vote to let the war move on, or you could spread the religion to give yourself enough votes to make it fail (or become AP leader yourself).

    You could go raze the AP city.

    If you have just one non-core city with the AP religion, you could try gifting it to someone else to free yourself of membership.

    Or you could research Mass Media and obsolete the AP (though in my games, it seems the AP never obsoletes as I am getting +2 hammers long after researching Mass Media when I don't own the AP).
     
  5. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

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    Yes resolutions only apply to Full and voting members, which by definition means they have at least 1 city with the AP religion.


    Or simply vote against it, another civ might want it to continue (including Shaka) and the resolution will fail. That has happened several times to me. And in that case you don't have any of the AP penalties, the -5 happiness in each AP city nor do you lose the 2 hammers per religious building.

    Even if the resolution does pass and you are forced into peace with Shaka, so what? If you want to go to war again just declare again after the 10 turns. That might have diplomatic consequences but you don't get any AP penalties.

    If I get the AP religion in my cities I usually spread it to all my cities and adopt it as my state religion. You then become a Full member and can try to get control of the Residency if you are the largest voter. It is also good to capture the shrine of the AP religion if you can so you get the gold benefit, which can be substantial. That becomes a top priority in my game.

    Having the AP religion as your religion usually means you have very good relations with most of the other full members and makes you immune from certain resolutions. Being the Resident is very powerful and allows you to decide what resolutions should be voted on, if any. Needless to say you avoid any that are detrimental to yourself.

    The AP becomes obsolete when the civ that owns it gets Mass Media. Maybe you can gift the tech to him if he has the prerequisites.
     
  6. Jimmyballz

    Jimmyballz Executive

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    Thanks guys, very helpful.

    It's been happening all game on and off and there are not enough turns to move to a city and take it over, even if I line up on our borders. Its annoying(so is Shaka:lol:).

    I would be the largest voter, good advice. tnx
     
  7. JBossch

    JBossch King

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    But can't they still present the resolution: "Stop the war against Shaka?" That will still end the war.

    Also, voting "never" simply counts as a "no" vote if the resolution fails. If it would have otherwise passed, that is when it counts and you get the +5 unhappiness. I recommend just defying. As long as you don't already have crippling war weariness you should be able to swallow the penalty.
     
  8. Dirk1302

    Dirk1302 Deity

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    The Ap is a very important factor which should probably always be reckoned with in advance. I once played a game where i had no production but lots of food and happiness resources. So i whipped cities near the -70 mark to get an army up. It worked
    fine till i had to defy a resolution, most of my cities were crippled at 3 pop (instead of 8 which i had calculated). Since then i know that "Where is the ap" is a very serious matter before planning wars.

    I'm not totally sure about when this unhappiness disappears btw, i voted for a resolutuin that passed afterwards (declare on X). And still had the unhappiness in some (not all) cities for some turns. Any thoughts here?
     
  9. KrikkitTwo

    KrikkitTwo Immortal

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    Few ways to deal with it

    1. Don't be a member... hard if you are planning on taking some of Shaka's cities that already hav it, but if those cities Don't have the religion, and neither to you , the only thing you have to worry about is a holy war declared on you

    2. Be a defying member, if you are only a nominal member of the AP anyways (only a few cities with the religion) this is the best way to do it, Only those cities get the penalties ( -5 :( and loss of the 2 hammers from thier religious buildings)

    3. Stop the vote... can you swing a majority? in that case just use the AP to your benefit


    If you have a significant but not a solid majority vote number and are determined to get those cities of Shaka's... then it will cost you dearly, and I would suggest annihilating him entirely and getting your vote up really high (or gifting Mass Media to the AP holder)
     
  10. Jimmyballz

    Jimmyballz Executive

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    This all happened way prior to Mass Media, and only a couple of my cities had the AP religion. I ended up losing the saved game:crazyeye:, but thats okay- this comes up all the time where im at the AP's mercy.


    ..does this mean that if I attack one of Shaka's cities that does not have the AP religion, the AP wouldnt call for 'stop war' vote? (with the effect of an all-out holy war)
     
  11. Cleverbeans

    Cleverbeans Chieftain

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    I recently had a similar experience where I was first in population and had just started a war with the AP's holder - Mansa. After being able to take only one city before the vote to stop it hit, I then spread the religion to all my cities and voted for myself to lead it next time it came up. Since Isabella was my main ally and all the surviving civs were of the same religion, I ended up winning an accidental diplomatic victory since she voted for me and was 3rd in population when all I had intended to do was continue warmongering under the assumption that a world leader vote had the least likely chance of succeeding.

    To address your question, if Shaka has just ONE city with the AP religion then they can call for the stop the war vote. If you take ALL his cities with the AP religion they won't try to stop you.
     
  12. CivCorpse

    CivCorpse Supreme Overlord of All

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    The easiest solution to stopping AP nonsense is to raze the city that has it
     
  13. Andvare

    Andvare King

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    There is also the sneaky way. Change Shaka's religion via spies.
     
  14. Jimmyballz

    Jimmyballz Executive

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    oh, that would be great, but in this case the AP resident is halfway around the world (somewhere I have never been) and Shaka is a thorn in my side.
     
  15. Jimmyballz

    Jimmyballz Executive

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    Really?? how exactly? Maybe I just havnt noticed, but with what mission???
     
  16. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I think it's "influence religion" or something along those lines. He has to be a different religion than you, and he has to have your religion in one of his cities at least. It should appear if you have enough points for it under those conditions.
     
  17. Bleys

    Bleys Deity

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    Actually, you will also not be able to get the hammers in any cities you spread the religion too after defying a resolution. This can really hurt, in the recent PYL Zealots game, Justinian built the AP, and I only had 1 city in it. I defied a vote to give that city back to Sury, but later, when I had spread the APs religion to more of my cities, those cities didnt get the hammer bonus either, until I actually voted for a resolution that passed.

    Eventually I just took the AP city from Justy, and won the game with a diplo vote myself, but I had spread the AP religion like mad to try to get enough votes so I wouldnt have to defy. He kept picking "Return XXX city to its rightful owner" where XXX was a city I had conquered from Sury or Saladin much earlier. At one point I had +10 unhappiness in a few cities and +5 in a bunch of others when the AP wanted to return a city I had owned for over 100 turns, and had even built the Globe Theater and Forbidden Palace in! Kind of had to defy that one, LOL, I didnt have the votes to stop it yet.
     
  18. UncleJJ

    UncleJJ Deity

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    That happened to me in a game as well. I defied the resolution to return a city to another AP member twice. Incidentally, the -5 happiness has a timer associated with it, something like 50 turns I think, and then it disappears without any AP resolutions. That happened to me and so over a period of time I got -5 happiness in my cities that had the religion with me defying the first resolution, then no happiness penalty when the timer expired but no hammers for the buildings and then following another vote to return the city another -5 happiness. That eventually ended when I managed to raise the culture in the city to more than 50% mine. The vote to transfer a city is linked to the culture of the 2 contenders, once you get more than your rival it ceases. The city is now yours and safe to develop any way you like. In my game I made sure to build all the culture buildings as soon as I could, unfortunately the civ I took the city from was Creative), and as an unintended benefit the border pops eventually managed to steal a whale from another civ using the cultural output.

    It took another AP resolution to eventually get my AP hammers back so when the member I had stolen the city from declared war on me I kept the war running and when the resolution to end it can up I voted in favour :) ... and I got my hammers back. I also took a city from him but had to return that later. I anticipated that and whipped the city down to size 4 ... but that used up another AP resolution.

    Once you know how the AP system works you can manipulate it even if you don't control it. It is not that difficult and I'm now comfortable with it. The AI Resident is predictable so just give him something to complain about and he'll just use the vote on that. If the AP vote is going to come up soon just keep a war going (so it can be ended by an AP vote) or take a few cities you don't really want or need and whip the hell out of them making troops and spies (so it can be returned to the owner). You can predict this will happen so just play along. And when you are forced to comply with its requirements just wait a few turns and declare war again or recapture the city and add a few others ;).
     
  19. Jimmyballz

    Jimmyballz Executive

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    Gonna have to try that one when the situation arises...:nya:
     
  20. Yxklyx

    Yxklyx King

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    I've only played Vanilla so haven't played with the AP. Does the AP dominate all games like this? Is it always a major factor or only sometimes? Is it sometimes just a minor thorn? Can you disable the AP voting?
     

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