Apocalypto

[Cam_H]

Apocalypto​

​

“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within.” - W. Durant​

Leader:

Pacal II renamed "Chaacal III":

Expansive: +2 per city, +25% production of Workers, +100% for Granaries and Harbors.
Financial: Plots yielding at least 2 produce an additional 1
Holkan: Spearman replacement. Immune to First Strikes. Requires no resource to produce.
Ball Court: Colosseum replacement. An additional +2 over a Colosseum.
Mysticism and Mining.​

Victory:

All victory conditions are enabled.​

Variants:

Variant conditions must be met in order to achieve victory. Failure to achieve the variants will result in a game loss.

Respect for the Jungle

The Maya may not chop/remove forests or jungles, build mines, or build quarries until the commencement of the academically recognised Mayan 'classical age' at 200AD. They may however farm open lands, build cottages on open lands, build camps, build pastures, build roads, build forts, etc. where possible prior to 200AD. Settling cities on forests or jungles is acceptable.​

Dresden Codex

The Maya must acquire the Astronomy technology on or before 1300AD.​

Game Set-Up:

Note: The map has been modified in that some rivals have swapped starting locations on the map, however no other modifications have been made ... really.​

Rivals:

• Elizabeth I of England
• Huayna Capac of the Incas
• Isabella of Spain
• Joao II of Portugal
• Montezuma of the Aztecs
• Sitting Bull of Native American
• Willem van Oranje of The Netherlands

Roster:

vranasm
lymond
nocho
Sengir
Cam
Norvin_Green
Mikehendi​

The first turnset of the game will be of 20 turns duration. The next turnset of the game of 15 turns. 10-15 turns per turnset after the opening two. Players are expected to complete their turnsets within three days of completion of the preceding player's. Swaps and skips are allowed. Players may be removed from the roster. Players may not 'play ahead' until the game is completed.​

Start:

​

 

[nocho]

Reporting in!

Good we have quite some open land given the restrictions!

Questions: are we allowed to settle on trees, pre 200AD? Does the no-mining restriction apply to metals too? If so and if we have no horses, we'll have to get archery I guess, yuk. Edit: nvm, I didn't realize the holkan is resourceless.

Oh, the turnset lengths you give look rather epic-ish, but I see this is normal. Maybe it should be 20-15-10 instead of 30-20-15?

Given we are so hammer low in the beginning, I think we should have both cow and wheat in the BFC to at least be high on food and get some bonus hammers. We seem to have a nice cottage cap, so early pottery seems logical, more so being both exp and fin.

 

[vranasm]

subbing in...

and why am I the first to play?

as for the no-chopping requirement... I think you're a bit too cruel with not chopping jungles in this. Forests are ok by me, but the jungle brings unhealth, but it's a rule and I will obey of course.

moving warrior 1 SW and settle 1E feels natural

edit:

i don't think I would play more then 15 turns in the first TS anyway ;-). I would see it ideally like move scout move, post SS, then make the first TS with exploration.

edit2:
oh no mines nor quarries? now that is really....

and did i said 1E? make it more like 1SE...
let's hope for some forest spread on the ph south of capital

 

[lymond]

I don't think we should limit the roster to IMM only...this can be a learning experience for some lower level players. We can guide them through the tough parts.

Not sure if dry wheat is worth the move. I like SIP or 1E.

We can eventually chop jungles and forests per the variant, so it's not that bad.

Heck...let's go for Astro by 1AD...although it will be harder without hammers

We should probably find a very high food city to settle next. Limit whipping in cap to maybe first settler and a library, but then focus on cottages.

Hunt>AH>BW>TW>POT (might as well get Hunting before AH to open Holkans with BW...not like we can get advance units early without mines...well maybe horses)

Hopefully we will lucky hut a tech like Ag.

I loved the movie

 

[Cam_H]

Thanks for the sign ups!

Good we have quite some open land given the restrictions!

I must admit - there were some regen's to overcome (a.) excessive forests, and (b.) cows glitch.

Questions: are we allowed to settle on trees, pre 200AD? Does the no-mining restriction apply to metals too?

'Yes' to both. I'll edit the opening post to clarify the 'settling on forest / jungle thing'.

Oh, the turnset lengths you give look rather epic-ish, but I see this is normal. Maybe it should be 20-15-10 instead of 30-20-15?

All-righty then.

why am I the first to play?

Because we have a 100% success rate when you start.

as for the no-chopping requirement... I think you're a bit too cruel with not chopping jungles in this. Forests are ok by me, but the jungle brings unhealth, but it's a rule and I will obey of course.

It's the rule! I'm cruel!

I don't think we should limit the roster to IMM only...this can be a learning experience for some lower level players. We can guide them through the tough parts.

Good point - I've tweaked the opening post.

I won't comment on city placement until Bronze Working and Animal Husbandry are in, as I've seen the map.

 

[Sengir]

You can count me in, but you'll have to wait until tomorrow before my head's done processing the variant

 

[vranasm]

ok since I am the driver for now ;-) I think next thing I should do is move our warrior 1 SW on the nice unforested hill to see a bit more what is south.

oh as an aside...I bought SW:TOR (even if I thought after doing the beta stress test that it will be wash) and it's actually pretty cool ;-). Will make a dent into my civ time, but I will limit civ to SG's only so no big danger from there ;-).

Just feel free to post some posts about the initial scout warrior move... i would do him tomorrow...

 

[Habitus]

vranasm, what server you playing on?

Lurking as I don't think I'll have the civ time to commit to a SG at moment

 

[vranasm]

I am on euro... not sure but I think it's Arkanian legacy PvE server.

 

[vranasm]

As for our game... Windmills could make unforested hills less sucky imo and machinery is on path towards Astronomy. We don't have fishing so we could probably GS bulb machinery in "reasonable time".

Generally agree with the tech path outlined by L. looks very reasonable. Not so sure about cottages since slavery will be probably our biggest source of hammers for long time.

 

[Sengir]

Yeah, move the warrior to the plain hill and post a screenie, there might be something worthwhile over there. For now, I'd say settle 2E. If my foggazing is correct, that site has 3 FP in addition to the cows and wheat, giving either a lot of food or commerce. That depends on sites around IMHO; if we don't find high food sites, the cap needs to be whipped to get some production.

I'm not sure about the feasibility of bulbing Mach early enough to be useful. If I interpret the list correctly we need
Agri - Wheel - Pottery - Writing - Aest - Math - Alpha - Masonry - BW - IW, not necessarily in that order, not teching Fishing as that means we need a bunch of additional techs as well. A lot will depend on our teching speed and the AI's (and their willingness to trade).

 

[vranasm]

I moved the warrior and it looks like this



as i see it settling towards south is going in wrong way since we are most probably in south area of map.

As for the techs you mention sengir, it looks like big number of techs (and you actually forgot MC), but we can go for the usual aesthetics trade bait and voila we get some of those techs as backfills.

It's just an option that came to mind, nothing more. We could make the engineering bulb strategy, but without philo it is a bit more painful.

So it mostly depends if we are on "pangeaish" map and if we will build coastal cities...

 

[lymond]

I considered 2E as well, but it may nerf our production later. I think we will have a good spot over there for a 2nd city. 1E will give us at least 2 FPs, I think.

i don't think a machinery push is really worth it for likely a couple hundred years before we can then build mines.

 

[vranasm]

merry everyone...

sort of PPP:

- Settled 2E
- build worker and play until worker is built (T16 is it?)
- scout with warrior around capital first a bit towards south west, but not much deep, then west, north west, north, north east and I guess that would be it ;-).
- the hut is popped by capital borders of course

thoughts?

 

[Cam_H]

I'm thinking "sounds good"!

 

[lymond]

1E...losing a turn for what appears to be a loss doesn't seem worth it. i hate losing the production.

 

[vranasm]

1E doesn't picks up the wheat...are you sure?

maybe we should vote then where to settle... I am 50:50 on 1E x 2E...

I thought you initially voted for 2E thus you, sengir, cam and slightly me was for 2E...

 

[lymond]

I'm not sure dry plains wheat is worth it. THen again, it will give us 1 hammer. However, we will lose a lot of production later, including a river hill. We could actually throw a cottage up on the grass hills early.

We might consider Oracle>MC for workshops, at least I don't think that is prohibited.

My vote is 1E, but I suspect I will lose out anyway.

By the way, Merry Christmas all!!!

V-

Spoiler :

Meant to say this earlier, but sorry about the loss of Havel.

 

[vranasm]

about Havel

Spoiler :

oh well... you have to understand that Havel is controversial person here in Czech Republic. Actually am really surprised that he was so well accepted in US and other countries. The picture you get from media is not something you would get by common folk.

Here he basically splits the nation... a lot of us don't agree with everything he did/said etc.

he did his share, but the latest "goddiness" is really annoying. I think before the 1989 he was someone other then mid 90's. he really changed and there are some things about him a lot of us can't agree.

We have here saying "no one is prophet at home".

 

[nocho]

Merry Xmas folks!

To complicate matters, I vote for 1SE. Losing the forest is of no importance given the variant. Picks up both resources, at least has an extra hill vs 2E and has even more riverside cottages than 2E (be it probably with a FP less, but with wheat, which amply compensates that, even if dry). Loses a turn, but 2E too.