Apolyton Border Chat

[Goonie]

Everything was going fairly well until an untimely comment by Boots.

I will be writing a formal proposal at 6, and will send it to them where they will vote on the matter.

As you can see Boots comment was very unfortunate. Now they won't feel bad to give us just BOP.

 

[Goonie]

Start of #isdgfamtalks buffer: Mon Nov 10 17:24:57 2003

* Now talking in #isdgfamtalks
* Topic is '4Greetings! 2 Please "1/notify (nick)"2 us when you enter this
channel so that we know you are here. We will respond as soon as we can.
Thanks. '
* Set by BigFree on Sun Oct 12 02:42:39
[Goonie] hola
[Bootstoots] hi Goonie
[Goonie] I was wondering if we could have a little discussion
[MasterZen] hello
[Goonie] good to see you
[MasterZen] likewise
[Goonie] Can we talk in here?
[MasterZen] sure
[Goonie] is that alright with you
[Goonie] ok good
[Goonie] I want to start by going over some history
[Goonie] lets start with the beginning of the long GCA conflict
[Goonie] you with me?
[MasterZen] yep I'm listening
[Goonie] well as you are well aware, for many years, Fanatikou fought alone
[Goonie] We were ok with that , because we understood your constraitns
[Goonie] You needed to build up forces and that completely reasonable
[Goonie] Then Elucidia joined the picture
[Goonie] And ultimately paid the sacrifice
[MasterZen] not so "immortal" is what I would say
[Goonie] For many many years Fanatikou fought on until the glorious time
when Apolyton was able to once again join in the fight against the
dishourable Alliacne
[Goonie] Well with your help, Gca will be gone

 

[Goonie]

* Chieftess has joined #isdgfamtalks
[Goonie] Agreed?
[MasterZen] so far so good
[Goonie] Well
[Goonie] well without us, would you at this moment be marching on
Catchopolis is my question
[MasterZen] counter-factual history never gives precise answers we
might, we might not, guess we'll never know :S
[Trip] without us would CFC be alive is my question
[Goonie] That is a very fair question
[Goonie] And the answer is most likely no
[Trip] ah
[Goonie] But what I am trying to get at is this...
[Trip] well, it's good we've been able to help each other
[Goonie] We have both been instrumental to each other
* E_T has joined #isdgfamtalks
[Goonie] We have both helped each other imensly
[E_T] hey guys
[Goonie] so, basically what I am getting at, is the border issue
[Goonie] We would like to look at alternatives to the CFC gets west of BOP
proposak
[MasterZen] I thought we had agreed to split it that way, and have BoP in
the balance to be determined
[Goonie] well no, no one is at CFC is fessing up to having agreed, and they
never polled it
[E_T] Are we expecting anyone else to show?
[Goonie] So here is waht I am here to offer
[WhiteBandit] i have logs if you'd like to post them
[Goonie] yes that would be nice
[WhiteBandit] let me dig them up
[E_T] let's move this to a secure room
[MasterZen] yeah, we had a big chat with OctX a few weeks ago, a lot of
guys from both Poly and CFC were present

 

[Goonie]

[Goonie] If CFC takes Balance of Power, we would be going back more than
1000 years
* MasterZen sets mode: +k shalala
[Goonie] So here is my offer
[Goonie] directly east of BOP there is a mountain just south of Catchopolis
[WhiteBandit] goonie - what is your email? i can send logs right now
[Goonie] We would like to see the border drawn along that line, giving
Apolyton Catchopolis and everything to the North
[Goonie] WB - Unfortunately no one polled it and is invalid. I do not feel
comfortable giving out my email , can you PM to my Apolyton account.
Goonie
[Goonie] And give CFC that mountain and what lies to the south
[WhiteBandit] i understand it is invalid. i'm sending you logs showing that
we agreed that the issue isn't agreed on just yet
[Goonie] This only gives us two extra cities. Thats all we would gain from
more than 1000 years of war
[E_T] Goonie, we won't let any spammers get your e-mail addy....
[Goonie] WB - oh ok. Sorry , I took a very long sebatical
[Goonie] Come out of retirement one might say
[Goonie] anyways, did you all get a chance to look at a map
[WhiteBandit] hehe excellent
[WhiteBandit] looking at a map right now
[Goonie] ok
[MasterZen] this is going to be rather difficult to get the team to agree,
we already discussed that chat and we thought the arrangements to be
fair. We also sensed CFC was ok with it. Obviously we still have to
resolve the BoP issue but that's another story
[Goonie] yes
[Goonie] I understand its hard to convince voters
[Goonie] You could remind them of the history of this war
[WhiteBandit] yes
[Goonie] And explain to them how much we have suffered
[Goonie] if the border was drawn at BOP we would not have gained anything
from it.
[WhiteBandit] however, the flip side is that if we split our continent down
the chokepoints, we each get roughly the same amount of territory
[Goonie] Well aPolyton on the other hand will have gained the territory of
two other nations
[Goonie] actually the west side is quite small.
[Goonie] compartively speaking
[E_T] Shoot, there is a Lot that you can do there
[MasterZen] you also have to remember a bit more of the early history of
that war, and that fact that Apolyton tried to stop it and got both you
and GCA on the table to discuss a peaceful solution, and it went down the
drain unfortunately
[Goonie] So, we do understand, that most all of the gains were made by
APolyton
[Goonie] And we appreciate how they were very effective and killing GCa,
that is why we are only asking for two cities east of BOP
[Goonie] MasterZen, if peace had been brokered, would you have all the
territory you have today?

 

[Goonie]

[MasterZen] I mean hell, we knew GCA had an itchy trigger finger and they
paid the price for their agression, but we can't be expected to go out of
our way when it was a war that we never wanted ourselves
[Goonie] That war helped you hain alot of land
[Goonie] true
[WhiteBandit] Goonie - all we can really tell you at the moment is that we
will have to take it back to our city to discuss. It will be hard to
convince our citizens of your proposal though
[Goonie] And Fanatikou is forever endetted to APolyon
[WhiteBandit] city = citizens
[Goonie] Ok. I understand. But, if you don't mind, may I write a little
proposal for you to show to them before you bring this up with them
[MasterZen] instead of debt, think of friendship, we don't feel CFC owes us
anything. All we want is to have a neighbor that we can trust something
that never happened with CDG
[WhiteBandit] the other issue about the cities is that we're not sure we
can even capture them... with GCA disbanding stuff left and right :-/
[Goonie] True, well I will share some good/bad news with you
[Goonie] GCA is pulling out of the west it seems
[WhiteBandit] good, so they should fall like dominoes when you attack
[Goonie] the bad is they are most likely moving east
[WhiteBandit] speaking of which, what is your current status with them?
[WhiteBandit] octavian said you guys were at war
[WhiteBandit] but there is some confusion over that
* MRex has joined #isdgfamtalks
[Goonie] The good is that we can talk almost all their cities
[Goonie] yes, war
[Bootstoots] we are at war and invading, with a half dozen troops to reach
Sodapopolis next turn and some more coming in after that
[WhiteBandit] excellent
[Goonie] So hopefully Fanatikessen troops will see east of BOP for the
first time in history
[WhiteBandit] we've done it before, but i want to thank you guys once again
for investigating for us. that has greatly helped our efforts
[Goonie] And hopefully Fanatikesen adn Apolytonian troops will fight side
by side for the first time in history
[Goonie] WB - We are always here for you.
[Goonie] So, can you give me abit of time to write this proposal for you to
show to your citizens
[WhiteBandit] sure thing
[Bootstoots] btw, if Goonie's proposal doesn't go through, myself (and
probably the majority of the team) would be satisfied with the original
proposal, though it would be nice if we got BoP
* opd has joined #ISDGfamtalks
[WhiteBandit] Bootstoots - sounds good, we'll discuss this back home and
see what we can come up with
[Goonie] Actually boots you are speaking for yourself.
[MasterZen] we will post this don't worry, and the team will discuss
everything
[WhiteBandit] Well regardless of what happens, we'll have to wait on your
final proposal before we can effectively make a decision
[WhiteBandit] I do want to remind you that this current proposal may be
hard to swallow, so I can't make any promises on what the people of
Apolyton will say

 

[Goonie]

[Goonie] Ok, I have to go , but I will be back around 6
[Goonie] Then I will return here to give you the proposal
[MasterZen] yeah, all of us already had agreed to the original one
[WhiteBandit] goonie - feel free to email it to me at
[Goonie] ok
[WhiteBandit] i have a concert to go to tonight so i won't be around, MZ
and BF may be around to help you out though
[MasterZen] yeah, I finally have internet again...
[Goonie] ok.
[Goonie] It was good talking to you guys again
[Goonie] Anyone know how to make a log?
[BigFree] copy everything with a pen and paper...
[WhiteBandit] click on the little icon on this chat window to the left
[Goonie] BF good idea
[WhiteBandit] go down to Buffer
[WhiteBandit] then click save as
End of #isdgfamtalks buffer Mon Nov 10 17:24:57 2003

 

[Bootstoots]

I have a log here: Chat Log
EDIT: Looks like that won't be necessary, but it's here in case anybody wants a zipped form of it.

Regarding my comment that Goonie refered to, I do not believe that it altered the course of the negotiations. Goonie made the proposal that CFC receive everything south of Catchopolis in addition to the already agreed-upon proposal of us getting everything to the west of BoP and Equilibrium. This did not appear that would go through (though apparently Goonie had a different impression) so I told them that the majority of our team would probably be satisfied with the original agreement if this one didn't go through. Apparently he got the impression that I ruined the entire talk by telling them that, but I was under the impression (as the chat log backs up) that it almost certainly would not go through. I didn't want this to sour our relations with Poly in any way by it appearing that we were demanding territory that they didn't feel we deserved, given that they were doing most of the work of conquering GCA. That's all that comment was. I'll post it here for all to see:

<Bootstoots> btw, if Goonie's proposal doesn't go through, myself (and probably the majority of the team) would be satisfied with the original proposal, though it would be nice if we got BoP

EDIT: Removed reference to original proposal passing at Poly.

 

[Goonie]

Boots, you tell them those kinds of things AFTER it is CLEAR that we lost the negotiation. If you tell it to them during negotiations it makes you look weak, and lets the other side think it is fine not to give you what you want. Your strategy is a recipe for FA diasaster.
And the original proposal had not passed BTW.

Let us forget about it though, and move on.

 

[Goonie]

Peoples of Apolyton,
The people of Fanatikou would like to extend our deepest and most heartfelt gratitude towards Apolyton and its wonderous and ever tactful citizens. It is clear that our nations have acheived alot with each others aid, and we would like for this to continue in the future. Toghther and only through combined efforts were we able to eliminate the Alliance threat. We each were dependant on the other for this. If GCA had not been forced to fight a two front war, we would never have been able to vanquish them.

With that said, we are coming to a critical time in our two nations history. So far, we have been good friends uniting against a common foe. Now however it looks as if this foe may not be here much longer. Fanatikou has spent more than 1000 years fighthing The Gamecatcher threat, and was figthing well before our gracious Apolytonian friends came to our rescue. Please consider us to be the British in WWII. The British fought from the beginning, and did their best to fight the nazis. The British however could not finish the war alone. Just as Fanatikou could not remove the Gamecathcer tyranny alone. The British needed help, as did we. Consider yourselfs the Americans. The Americans aided in the victory over the British, just as Apolyton aided Fanatikou to rid the world of the Alliance scum, that lay rotting on our continent.

Fanatikou suffered greatly in this war, and if Fanatikou were to take BOP and draw the border there, she will have gained nothing after a 1000 year struggle. That is why we come to you today. We would like to propose to you a fair and equitable offer regarding future borders.

Before I outline the proposal, I would like to reming the great citizens of Apolyton how much we have aided them. We provide very timely and informative screenies of GCA cities, we fought GCA alone for many years so that Apolyton could muster its forces, we make very important technological deals with Apolyton that greatly benefit both nations.

The most important point however is that for the rest of the game, we are the only people you have to rely on. We have to be here for each other to defend our wonderous continent against invasion etc... That is why we need to have a fair border for the future. Apolyton has already gained lots of territory in this war, but Fanatikou unfortunately has gained none, so please consider this proposal from your hearts, and remember we are your best - and last - friends on this continent. The majority of the Fanatikesen people will be very sad if our glorious borders end at BOP. We have all fought for a long time, and would like to have at least a little souvenir of GCA mainland.

What we propose is that Fanatikou gets BOP and that we draw a line straight east that gives Apolyton everything to the north including Catchopolis and gives Fanatikou the two small cities to the south.

On another note. Regarding the rumours you heard about internal conflict. We always want to share our intelligence with you, the only problem the citizens had with Octavians actions are that he informed Apolyton of the information without seeking consent from the people as specified by the Fanatikesen constitution.

 

[Zarn]

Goonie, I must applaud your effort to enlargen our territory. You did catch him off guard, and I think your diplomatic spark was too much for them. We may get something out of this.

 

[Ankka]

Yes. Nice. Very nice indeed.

 

[Goonie]

Thank you boys. Let us await the results.

 

[Octavian X]

Sorry Goonie, but it's not looking good. After you left their chatroom today, I was told that as of yet, your proposal hasn't gained any support from any Apolytonians.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

Originally posted by Octavian X
Sorry Goonie, but it's not looking good. After you left their chatroom today, I was told that as of yet, your proposal hasn't gained any support from any Apolytonians.

And I don't suspect that it will. I believe that Apolyton is already being more than generous by letting us claim the land west of Equilibrium(which contains enough Silk for us to trade to everyone left in the game). Why do we want to risk stable relations with a more powerful neighbor by trying to talk them out of more land?

Dividing our continent at the chokepoints is not only fair, but it is also makes strategic sense. Doing this will give us much less border to defend, not to mention a better naval situation(we can unload a galley right into their unsettled forest), should relations with Apolyton ever go south.

But I don't want that to happen, and today's chat seems to be a step in that direction if we continue pressing for more than we deserve.

 

[croxis]

I was lookign at that. Will we have control of both choke points or not?

Don't forget, they can drom a galley the same.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

If we get BoP, the we will control one chokepoint and Poly will have the other. Both cities(BoP and Equilibrium) also currently work as canals, allowing boats to enter and leave the ocean via the lake.

And you are correct, croxis, about the galley. The advantage we have at the moment is that our harbor is closer to our productive center, so we would be able to fill our ships more quickly.

However, I really don't wish to discuss anything further on that, as I am hoping we never see that day. I can't wait to see Poly's response to these demands, however.