Apostolic Palace and United Nations

[juanbobo]

The Apostolic Palace expires only when its owner researches Mass Media, correct? So both the Apostolic Palace and United Nations can be functioning at once?

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Correct.

 

[r_rolo1]

And to make things more interesting, the AP will be ressurected if the city that holds it is captured by someone without Mass Media ( or gifted/culturally flipped )...

 

[ABHPage]

In my last game I got so annoyed by the apostolic palace always taking resolution to end the wars I started that I built boats and a stack, navigated all around the continent, and then DoW the guy that had built it. Smart enough, I razed his city, effectively preventing the AP to ever stop my war again.

Next thing I know, the following turn someone else built the UN... Fortunately it was on the same continent, sameside just a little north, so I put my stack back in my boats, moved it north, DoW this other civ, and razed their capital aswell, effectively removing the UN from the game. Then I proceeded to kill everyone for the next few hundred years with a big grin on my face. It was a pretty satisfying feeling.

 

[juanbobo]

And to make things more interesting, the AP will be ressurected if the city that holds it is captured by someone without Mass Media ( or gifted/culturally flipped )...

Ah, interesting, the little quirks of Civ

 

[Sydney Posada]

And to make things more interesting, the AP will be ressurected if the city that holds it is captured by someone without Mass Media ( or gifted/culturally flipped )...

What they really should have done is if ANYONE got Mass Media, it would obsolete the AP...

 

[r_rolo1]

That would not fit well with the rest of the game obseletion mechanics: your Stonehenge does not get obsolete if someone discovers Astro or your monasteries if someone gets Sic Met ( and thank the heavens for that not happening ). Why would the AP be special in that regard?

 

[Sydney Posada]

That would not fit well with the rest of the game obseletion mechanics: your Stonehenge does not get obsolete if someone discovers Astro or your monasteries if someone gets Sic Met ( and thank the heavens for that not happening ). Why would the AP be special in that regard?

I actually think that some things should be obsolete if ANYONE gets them, and some things should remain the same, becoming obsolete only if YOU get them. The variety would be good for gameplay, as right now, I avoid Scientific Method like the plague because it obsoletes so much of my stuff (Parthenon, Great Library, Monasteries, etc.). If some (not all) of that stuff got obsoleted when ANYONE discovers SciMethod, then I'd be much more inclined to go for it myself.

The AP going obsolete at anyone's Mass Media makes some degree of logical sense, too, since Mass Media seems like something that would affect the whole world, even civs that haven't specifically researched it themselves...

 

[duckstab]

The AP going obsolete at anyone's Mass Media makes some degree of logical sense, too, since Mass Media seems like something that would affect the whole world, even civs that haven't specifically researched it themselves...

Radio and TV weren't available all over the world the minute they were discovered, it happened over many decades.

I've always thought the obsoleting of the AP with MM modeled the declining influence of religion in societies where radio and TV promoted more secular values.

However, from this perspective, it seems to me the "religious" victory doesn't make much sense once MM becomes well-established (i.e., known to several civs).

 

[Ghpstage]

I actually think that some things should be obsolete if ANYONE gets them, and some things should remain the same, becoming obsolete only if YOU get them. The variety would be good for gameplay, as right now, I avoid Scientific Method like the plague because it obsoletes so much of my stuff (Parthenon, Great Library, Monasteries, etc.). If some (not all) of that stuff got obsoleted when ANYONE discovers SciMethod, then I'd be much more inclined to go for it myself.

The AP going obsolete at anyone's Mass Media makes some degree of logical sense, too, since Mass Media seems like something that would affect the whole world, even civs that haven't specifically researched it themselves...

I have to disagree with changing the way obsoletion works, it would significantly reduce the incentives of building wonders and further cripple isolated civs.
When it comes to Sci Meth, it may obsolete a few things, but it reveals Oil and opens up a whole heap of really useful techs (and units due to revealing Oil).

Without Sci Meth you couldn't get any of, Physics, Fission, Biology, Medicine (Sid's!), Artillery, Flight, Communism and heaps of others so its more a strategic decision as both getting it early OR ignoring it can be viable approaches. Changing obsoletion to make Sci Meth more desirable is totally unnecessary and will only reduce the number of options available.

 

[georgjorge]

You can always gift Mass Media to them if you hate the AP too much.

 

[David7]

In my last game I got so annoyed by the apostolic palace always taking resolution to end the wars I started that I built boats and a stack, navigated all around the continent, and then DoW the guy that had built it. Smart enough, I razed his city, effectively preventing the AP to ever stop my war again.

Next thing I know, the following turn someone else built the UN... Fortunately it was on the same continent, sameside just a little north, so I put my stack back in my boats, moved it north, DoW this other civ, and razed their capital aswell, effectively removing the UN from the game. Then I proceeded to kill everyone for the next few hundred years with a big grin on my face. It was a pretty satisfying feeling.

Why not gift Mass Media?