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[April Fools] New Civilization 5: Gods & Kings Details released

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by vexing, Mar 31, 2012.

  1. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    Yes, the Civ V team have done a great job of only introducing/using mechanics the AI is capable of executing effectively. Like asymmetric open borders trades, embarking/disembarking, 1UPT combat, unit promotions, great people...
     
  2. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    The AI have had problems with great people?

    As for embarking/disembarking, they're certainly better at that than they were at loading units into ships.

    When Civ5 vanilla was released.
     
  3. king Oosterveld

    king Oosterveld Chieftain

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    ok now that makes sense. i would still like to play even though it would be VERY buggy. and if we could, 2K could detect the reasons for bugs and fix them because we have reported them. thus, earlier release. and we get to play.
     
  4. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    Well not to be contrarian here but those are more the Itza cities. They are more famous than the Southern cities, but the Southern Cities were just as important culturally and religiously. A lot less famous (since the architecture is much more famous) and less populated but in general it is presumed for a long time population density was higher in the south than in the north.

    Both Post Classic and currently some digs focusing on early sites in the south are turning out to show a fairly wide difference in the south. Also the problems of the south being more populated now and major sites being destroyed before archaeologists ever were able to reach them (i.e. the major southern site of Kaminaljuyu) will probably leave the south less famous.

    And as for the Mirador Basin, supposedly the homeplace of the Maya civilization the majority of these ruins are Guatemalan and looks to be the home of the Spiritual beliefs and Agricultural techniques of the Maya.
     
  5. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    well, the problem here is that agriculture is generally the fine line between whether or not something is considered a civilization.


    so an open beta? i mean, they already have beta testers, but it's not an open invitation type deal.
     
  6. king Oosterveld

    king Oosterveld Chieftain

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    the agriculture thing you said was what i was trying to say before, and yes, an open beta. why not?
     
  7. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    But that's quite debatable.
    What about hunter-gatherers like the African Bushmen, the Aboriginals, the Batek, the Hadza?
    Or nomads, like the Hmong, the Sami, the Tuaregs, the Mongols, etc.?

    All contemporary civilizations that don't practice agriculture.
     
  8. topsecret

    topsecret Spymaster

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    Does anyone remember last year's joke: Ultimate Diplomacy? :lol:
     
  9. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    no, those are contemporary cultures. by definition, you can't be a civilization without agriculture.
     
  10. KevinLancaster

    KevinLancaster Prince

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    From the high school world history class I'm in right now, the characteristics of a civilization are:
    "Centralized Government"
    "State Religion"
    "Class Structure"
    "Agricultural Intensification"
    "Development of Science and Writing"
    "Merchants and Trade"
    and "Occupational Specialization".

    So I guess we can assume that if a group has a decent amount of these aspects and/or a sufficient impact on world history we can call them a "civilization".
     
  11. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    i guess you could technically have an ancient city-state that functioned like a modern larger city that traded for most of their agricultural goods and consider that a civilization, but that would be an exception to the rule.
     
  12. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Urbanization predated agriculture. Jericho is the perfect example. And Jericho was on equal footing to a city-state like Ur if we're talking about pre-Sargon of Akkad. Civilizations have to start somewhere. No one is arguing that you should be allowed to go the whole game without researching agriculture.
     
  13. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    So the Huns and Mongols don't qualify as a civilization, technically? (not arguing, just curious)
     
  14. Carazycool

    Carazycool Warlord

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    there is also the argument that agriculture is necessarily unsustainable and has sealed the fate of humanity to wipe itself off this planet, but that's another discussion entirely.
     
  15. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    W00T?

    Can you please share a link to a site describing in depth that theory? I am genuinely interested. :think:
     
  16. king Oosterveld

    king Oosterveld Chieftain

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    please tell me if any of this info is useful. pretty much sums up any/all known info about the expansion.
     
  17. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    no, i know that. while i agree that a scenario or something where you're nomads would be fun, what's being argued is the definition of a civilization.
    the word "civilization" is kind of tough to define exactly, but like i said before, agriculture is considered the line.
    then again, now that i think about it, animal husbandry is part of agriculture, even if it's considered a different technology in the game.
    also, according to this link, there was farming in jericho.


    eventually, sure, but not while they were nomads. they're kind of tricky anyway, since they kind of straddled the line between nomadic and settled while they had their empires.
     
  18. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    I'm always amused by threads where people attempt to use strict definitions on what is a "civilization" as if it is actually that black and white. No single simple definition of "civilization" exists that people can seriously try to argue that one prominent culture or nation of people is not a civilization. You don't need to have agriculture or cities to be a civilization, you just have to be seen as more "civilized" than "savages", which is inherently an imperialist definition since who defines what is a savage and what is not? So it's naive to try to argue that one civilization is not a true civilization and therefore does not belong in the game because the idea of a civilization, as people here try to define it, is very subjective.
     
  19. awesome

    awesome Meme Lord

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    to be fair, nobody's arguing who should be in or out of the game. i agree that it's tough to define the term, which is why i said that 'the word "civilization" is kind of tough to define exactly.'
     
  20. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    Well the thing is "Agriculture" as the definition of civilization being the line for a culture to be a civ is something a lot of people dont agree with.

    Some may consider it... but again Mongols are a great example.

    And as its turning out we have instances like Jericho and some early civilizations in Turkey and the Harrapan who seem to have arisen and constructed complex societies and recognizable towns/cultures, etc. prior to agriculture.

    Gobekli Tepe (or however it is spelled) is making quite the case for a general redefinition.
     

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