Arabia and other Questions

[LegioCorvus]

I'm going through the UHVs in order, and just started on the 600 AD civs (skipping China & Japan). I thought I had Arabia, just managing to take over Spain at 1290 AD, but two turns later I only get the 1 of 3 UHVs goals achieved, controlling 3 holy cities. I check F8, and under "control Egypt, Spain, Carthage" is still said Not Yet. Next turn, it goes gray. Do I need to take out Portugal as well? I attached a pic and save. Version 1.811 by the way, or whatever shipped with BTS.



If anyone is wondering why I don't just upgrade to the latest version: I started on this one, and I'm just kind of stubborn that way. Sorry.

Anyway, my other questions:

1) In my Japan game, I was leading the world in GNP in 1814. 1861 to 2nd place's 1181. My science was 912 per turn @ 80%. By all rights, I was leading the tech race. I had Netherlands as a vassal though, and I noticed the started to catch up. I calculated how fast they were teching, and they were netting nearly 1,600 per turn! (They just finished Fascism, and started Industrialism - due in 5 turns). They only had 3 cities, and I was completely baffled as to how they could do this. It wasn't a golden age, as I played to the end of the UHV, and I never saw "Netherland's Golden Age has ended." Anyone know what's going on here?

2) So far, when I start as one Civ and switch to another, I never get the option to switch again. This normal (for this version or otherwise)?

3) In several of my games, I can't help but notice that random resources start to spawn across the map. Corn in China, Cows in California, etc. So far I've only noticed the Cows in California twice, and I think the Corn became Sugar in another game. This an addition to the game, or a bug?

4) Peace treaties. I've had them canceled after as little as 3 turns. Is it at the AIs whim, or are there other factors in play?

5) Is the final score for the Vikings UHV pretty low? So far it's my 3rd lowest after Ethiopia & Egypt. I didn't feel like I did that badly, and I even finished in 1730 AD, but I still have a nagging suspicion that I could do better.

Thanks.

 

[Wessel V1]

1. Tech costs are different for each civ. Compare a small empire like the Netherlands with a large empire like China or Russia, and you'll notice the difference. Also, if you have more than 10 cities, tech costs are increase exponentially, to compensate a large empire.
2. That is normal, but there is a modcomp somewhere that introduced unlimited changes.
3. These resources are scripted. More information can be found in the "Resources" file in the Assets/Python folder.
4. I don't know for sure, but I believe that is to improve the AI's war performance.
5. The more time you need to ensure victory, the lower your score will be. Also, the number of cities and their population are important, and if you haven't expanded outside Scandinavia it's pretty obvious both numbers are low. Egypt should be much higher on your list though, because it ends so early. Even Augustus Caesar should be possible.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The AI likes to devote all hammers to research. Factor in the Dutch Dikes and you get super research beakers.
(e.g. base research in capital 300 (assuming bank/market/grocers), plus hammers about 450, multiply by 100% (observatory, university, library), and you get about 900).

 

[FriendoftheDork]

Kinda hard to see on the minimap if you really control the areas of Carthage properly. Spain seems fine.. although I'm not quite sure if the city in revolt counts, but I don't think you need more as Potrugal seems to have no cities in Spain at all.

 

[LegioCorvus]

Kinda hard to see on the minimap if you really control the areas of Carthage properly. Spain seems fine.. although I'm not quite sure if the city in revolt counts, but I don't think you need more as Potrugal seems to have no cities in Spain at all.

I was wondering about Carthage. It wasn't there as I marched my army, so I built it a few turns before 1300 AD. There was another North African city on the way I did capture, but I'm not sure if both are enough to count the area. It'd be nice if there was some way to find out what you missed, but I'm sure that's a to program.

I'm guessing it's Spain at this point. *sigh* Time to find someway to shave off 10 turns from the current 70.

5. The more time you need to ensure victory, the lower your score will be. Also, the number of cities and their population are important, and if you haven't expanded outside Scandinavia it's pretty obvious both numbers are low. Egypt should be much higher on your list though, because it ends so early. Even Augustus Caesar should be possible.

Which explains why my Persia UHV victory is sitting at the top with 30,000+ points. Maybe it's because I refused to move my capitol and only built two cities for the Egyptian UHV. There's really not a lot of leeway in such a short UHV with very specific goals.

 

[Tlönitte]

The AI likes to devote all hammers to research. Factor in the Dutch Dikes and you get super research beakers.
(e.g. base research in capital 300 (assuming bank/market/grocers), plus hammers about 450, multiply by 100% (observatory, university, library), and you get about 900).

I didn't think Hammers were affected by universities, banks etc.

 

[LegioCorvus]

The AI likes to devote all hammers to research. Factor in the Dutch Dikes and you get super research beakers.
(e.g. base research in capital 300 (assuming bank/market/grocers), plus hammers about 450, multiply by 100% (observatory, university, library), and you get about 900).

Actually, the Dutch capitol was building Wimbledon at the time. As my vassal, I could see what they were building. The fact that they were building Wimbledon is what alerted me to the fact that they caught up with me in some techs, while the rest of the world still didn't have Physics.

Also, don't banks/markets/grocers only affect , which comes after base is divided into / / / ?

If they were running 1,600 per turn, I suppose they could have had 500+ per city... which would be roughly 250 per city after the slider, but before observatory/university/library... but I would still have no idea how they managed 250 pre-multiplies in just three cities with few cottages.

 

[Power_of_Beer]

The tech costs differ from civ to civ. Roughly said, civs that spawn later have to spend less beakers into a tech than earlier civs. This has balancing reasons (Imagine China having the same tech costs as Netherlands, England or America) and is for historical correctness, so that civs like the Netherlands or England are more advanced.

 

[blizzrd]

I was wondering about Carthage. It wasn't there as I marched my army, so I built it a few turns before 1300 AD. There was another North African city on the way I did capture, but I'm not sure if both are enough to count the area. It'd be nice if there was some way to find out what you missed, but I'm sure that's a to program.

I'm guessing it's Spain at this point. *sigh* Time to find someway to shave off 10 turns from the current 70.

I think you missed the Carthage requirement, although your screenshot was kind of hard to view clearly.

You should definitely check out the RFC atlas to understand the various territorial UHV requirements.

 

[wolfigor]

I think you missed the Carthage requirement, although your screenshot was kind of hard to view clearly.

You should definitely check out the RFC atlas to understand the various territorial UHV requirements.

building the town in the same location as Carthage should be enough, if there is no other town in the same area (look at the atlas for reference).

 

[Jusos2108]

I am totally NOT sure about this, but there should be two cities in Carthage. IIRC I read that from somewhere and it is specific only to the Arabian UHV.

Therefore collapsing Spain and having only one city there shouldn't be enough. I always build two cities in Carthage and I have never had any problems with that tactic.

 

[LegioCorvus]

I actually had 2 cities in Carthage during that game. In the next, which I finally got the UHV, I only had 1 city in the Carthage area, which I also founded. Apparently it was Spain. Got the UHV requirement in 1280 AD with slightly more land in the cultural boundaries than Portugal (the first victim of my golden age).

 

[blizzrd]

I actually had 2 cities in Carthage during that game. In the next, which I finally got the UHV, I only had 1 city in the Carthage area, which I also founded. Apparently it was Spain. Got the UHV requirement in 1280 AD with slightly more land in the cultural boundaries than Portugal (the first victim of my golden age).

Portugal has nothing to do with the Spanish UHV requirement. You need to either have more cities than Spain or at least one city in Spain if Spain has been eliminated.

 

[wolfigor]

I am totally NOT sure about this, but there should be two cities in Carthage. IIRC I read that from somewhere and it is specific only to the Arabian UHV.

Therefore collapsing Spain and having only one city there shouldn't be enough. I always build two cities in Carthage and I have never had any problems with that tactic.

I think you are right about this: you may need 2 cities in the Carthage area.

 

[LegioCorvus]

Portugal has nothing to do with the Spanish UHV requirement. You need to either have more cities than Spain or at least one city in Spain if Spain has been eliminated.

I got it by controlling 3 cities in Spain, and the first time I didn't get it with the 2 cities seen in the pic above. So, in the 1.181 patch (as pointed out at the start of the thread), just having one city in Spain and Spain eliminated won't get you the UHV requirement.

I'm think I figured it out. "Controlling" an area means having more tiles in your cultural borders than anyone else. So while Portugal isn't specifically mentioned in the UHV requirements, if their culture covers more of the Iberian peninsula, you won't get the UHV. I believe that also explains why I had my cities in Egypt, Carthage, & Spain but didn't get that UHV requirement 'til 1280 when I finally had more culture in the Iberian peninsula than Portugal.

I'm not eliminating the possibility of it being something else, but I wasn't paying attention while waiting for 1300, and I somehow got it 2 turns earlier when a border popped. I can upload the replay if anyone is interested.

I think you are right about this: you may need 2 cities in the Carthage area.

Again, I only had the 1 when I won the UHV. With no one else in the area, it appears only 1 was necessary.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Carthage area means Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and even parts of Libya. And I think you do need 2 cities.

 

[LegioCorvus]

Carthage area means Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and even parts of Libya. And I think you do need 2 cities.

Oh, for the love of...

Are you guys just messing with me?

Luckily, I didn't have time to delete these saves in my usual OCD method. I uploaded the save of 1310 AD when I had the Golden Age, where you can see I clearly only have Tunis, and that it was built shortly before. I'm also uploading the Replay, where you can see I only ever had one city in the Carthage area, not cities were built & destroyed, etc.

You know what? I'll even take a pic of my single Carthaginian city for those who don't want to bother loading the saves or replay. And before anyone says anything, that city to the right of Tunis was destroyed circa 1000 AD, was never controlled by me, and can easily be seen in the Replay if you view it.

 

[Jusos2108]

I can garantee that in the latest patches controlling an area has nothing to do with the the tiles you hold, only cities. But since you are using an earlier patch, it might be different..

 

[blizzrd]

Carthage area means Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and even parts of Libya. And I think you do need 2 cities.

Not correct. You need 2 cities only IF Carthage is alive, otherwise you need one city.

As Jusos2102 says, tiles has nothing to do with it. Only the number of cities matters.

Why are you playing with such an old patch anyway?

 

[smile286]

I've just did the second Arab UHV (control territory) in 1.186 (latest) version, it works fine. I suggest you to update RFC.