Arcane Barges are fun!

[Fafnir13]

Seriously fun. I don't know why I never got around to building them before. Well, I suppose there's the build cost, but what's the cost plus turns of cooking to get a Fire II mage?
Anyways, playing a Sidar game where the goal was to use CoE as my state religion, just so I can see what all it offers before I make a separate post complaining about what they lack.
One of the things they lack is a priest with a useful, mass-producible AoE to weaken those pesky cities on neighboring continents. Thought I'd give the Arcane Barges a try and I was not disappointed. Not the beefiest ships, but their ability to damage things ahead of time was a major bonus. Stacking a few mages on board with their own fireballs made it even better. While the ship-to-ship combat is certainly nice, what I'm really liking is how my small navy is able to offer some inland support that goes beyond knocking off some city defense. It's what the navies of Erebus have been needing.
Many people seem to agree that naval combat in FFH isn't particularly riveting (well that's cause their made with wood. ba-dum-psh!). If my little bit of play-time with the barges is any indication, a ranged attack on ships is the way to go. Cannons for later techs, some sort of raiders/viking thing for the lower guys. Just throwing stuff out there really. Anyone care to chime in with praise for the arcane barges/ideas for making ships more fun?

 

[Blackmantle]

If you want to play the CoE Sidar in their most terrifying form, join the Overcouncil, see that Liberty is passed (that one is rather important but should overall be doable without, and sometimes an AI chair chooses to put that one on the agenda as well...) and try to get everyone else to join as well (aka as much AI players as possible, with an higher emphasis on neigbors and other AI close by). Then go for cultural victory (or any other builder victory for that matter, but Cultural has its merits for various reasons...
If you don't go for Cultural but rather another one of the builder-victories / the rest of the World is rather of the REALLY! evil kind the Undercouncil might! be the better choice. But it is rarely...).

The most important perks of CoE imo are its utterly unrivaled diplomatic power (combined with a council its hard to get less than friendly status with everyone involved... Especially if Trust (Spirit 3) is added to the mix, which shouldn't be a big Deal thanks to Gibbon...
Which basically grants immunity to DoWs from most civs involved.
Just watch out for those ultra-agressive ones like Doviello and the likes) and the ability to Backstab effectively out of the blue (if one of those "pesky" friends dares trying to wrap up a game... And usually shortly after the backstab the War is conveniently and forcibly ended by the council in question...)
If you utilize those perks to their maximum potential (which might very well be above-mentioned setup) it seems very much on par with any other Religion available.
(Also if you utilize your Worldspell wisely you might get a constant stream of large heaps of Gold from invisible HN Cavalry (or Mistforms from Gibbon for that matter... ) pillaging your "friends" territory at will and without retaliation.)

No Priests really needed if you decide on all fights you care to do (and your CoE ghosts which are basically guaranteed when upgraded from Nightwatches (for a measly 5 Gold which should barely be worth mentioning for Sidar going for cultural), are a hell to catch for your "friends" when you stay near your borders and have Nox Nocturnis built. ).

That's a strategy for what should be a relatively easy + reliable deity (compared to what deity feels like with other paths and most other civs) win if you want one (and one without any or with very few reloads of course, session continual excluded.). You "just" have to survive the early onslaught... (but Sidar have an easier time doing that than most(all?) other civs for various reasons.)

And that should still be the case in spite of some of the rather serious (but more or less justified / understandable) nerfs the Sidar have been handed since Ice was released...

Sorry for the small derail.

And on a bit more on-topic note: Yes Barges can be big fun. (Even though they are not really powerful given the investments, save for maps with exessive amount of water. In which they might be the ship of choice.
Would still be nice and even more fun if they would be arcane units instead of naval ones, or start with promotions similar to adepts (Channeling 1,2 + all tier 1 spheres you have 2 or more mana of...) if that is deemed to powerful.. No need to bring an adept/mage for speeding the vessel up or summoning a big maelstorm with the barge in its eye... Never really understood that limitation to only fire-magics, save for balancing-reasons...
Perhaps someone would modmod that, or has already done for that matter...)

 

[heisenberg]

Barges are actually pretty weak now in naval battles for a unit with such high tech requirements ever since the naval units' strengths were bumped up by ~40%.
Now they hardly even dent the same tiered ships such as queens of the lines, man'o wars and such.

 

[Humakty]

Maybe they're a tad weak in raw power, but one or two in a fleet ensures easy victories against rival fleets not fielding any.

 

[heisenberg]

One or two fireballs isn't going to do any more damage to a man o'war than having an extra combat promo helps in terms of battle odds on average.

 

[Humakty]

Well, fireballs do collateral dommage, so they're interesting mainly because of it. A 1 or 2 strength decrease on several ships can mean much when big stacks are involved.

 

[zup]

And big stacks are all this game is about.

 

[JonathanStrange]

Arcane barges, as part of a larger fleet defending them, are very useful against enemy fleet stacks or for bombarding enemy cities.

I enjoy using an arcane barge to bombard and cause decent collateral damages while remaining safely in harbor. I don't use them as much as I'd like mainly 'cause they're relatively weak so you need to protect them alot but I love using them (when I'm rich and powerful) to finish destroying already weakened ships or softening a target up for the Man-O-War ships.

 

[WarKirby]

Arcane barges are FAR better in Fall Farther.

In addition to fireball, they can also cast Repair, Fair Winds, Maelstrom, and Floating eye.
AND they get to cast two spells per turn. Doublecasting maelstrom on a coastal city is incredible.

The catch though, they're a 4-limit national unit.

 

[Corlis]

Another way they could boost their power is by giving all ships the Vulnerable to Fire promotion. Those suckers are made out of wood, after all...

 

[Xetal]

I see them more as a support ship than a battleship. Your naval battleship is the Man'o'war at that point, and the Arcane Barges supplement that nicely. You can toss a fireball or two (or however many arcanes you have) into an enemy stack of ships before your man'o'wars hit it.

In addition to that, they are able to do collateral damage to a land stack, which no other ship can. This can weaken up a stack that's coming after one of your cities, or help to open up an enemy city to be conquered.

 

[25Hour]

I tend to view Arcane Barges as basically your main reward for achieving naval supremacy-- being able to effectively build a Fire 2 mage straight out of your port cities is no small thing, if you're trying to take or defend a city near the sea.

Arcane Barges (and similar land-attack ships) are what make naval warfare important, in my view. Galleys and Frigates and whatnot are basically there to secure the coastline so the AB's can get through and do their thing.

 

[Honor]

I find arcane barges to be pointless, really. Their fireballs do not get much stronger as they do not gain levels over time. I'm much better off with my fire mages on board those man'o wars, thank you.

Plus you can't wane arcane barges if you know what I mean

 

[Humakty]

Loading a ship with mages mean you take the risk to loose much production (and XP growth for the mage(s)) to one unlucky fight

 

[Honor]

Unless you are roaming around aimlessly with your ships, there won't be a problem. I only load them up before a major assault to another continent and try not to have less than 6-move visible water tiles by dispatching recon ships while moving. Mages can simply defend my cities from the shore if I am not at war.

 

[Jabie]

I'd quite like to see Arcane Barges have a "Melt Ice" spell which terraformed the ice in the sea into ocean/coast.

 

[Luckmann]

I'd quite like to see Arcane Barges have a "Melt Ice" spell which terraformed the ice in the sea into ocean/coast.

That'd be all nice and tidy until you suddently realize that your Winter Palace turned into a seaside condo.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

lol, does it still provide teh maintence reduction?

 

[Luckmann]

lol, does it still provide teh maintence reduction?

Only if you're playing as the Atlantoid civilization.

 

[Fafnir13]

Wouldn't something called the winter palace actually be down in warmer lands? I thought that's how that stuff usually worked.